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What Happened to Dawn of War 3?- When Good Sequels Go Bad - YouTube
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what happened to Dawn of War three it
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came out last year with quite a lot of
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hype behind it it was the next entry in
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one of the last great RTS series out
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there made by a veteran developer and
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then it came out and I don't know it's
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not like there was this massive negative
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backlash or anything but it fell by the
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wayside after about a week a truly
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terrible game would have a list of
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complaints a mile long but game to the
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bomb won't cause dawn or three to fail
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without playing it is really tricky
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that's because making a good sequel is
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even harder on one hand you've got to
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give people what they like but you've
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also got to iterate and change a good
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sequel can be defined in these two ways
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it needs to iterate upon the previous
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game offering a different viewpoint or
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improving the experience and it needs to
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but you know still be good in order for
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a sequel to be a progression or an
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improvement on the previous entry it
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needs to carry over some of the same
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ideas that are present in both entries
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this is what I'm gonna call the core a
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bit of the game that's so integral to
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the experience that without it it
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wouldn't be the same game anymore
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despite any number of iterations of the
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rules the story the graphics and stuff
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the core of the gameplay experience
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still remains what's the core of Dark
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Souls is it the story
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well no I'm pretty sure no one except
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fatty video actually cares about that
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what about their gloomy neo-gothic
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aesthetic not really the combat system
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well it certainly supports the core
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experience but I think the core of Dark
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Souls is the challenge the tough but
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fair gauntlet of boss fights of the
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smaller equally tough enemies that lead
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up to them each of the games in the Soul
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series is very different but there's no
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denying the presence of this unifying
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core Dark Souls 1 created the foundation
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but the bosses were a bit hit and miss
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in places and the game was severely
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lacking in Polish 2 iterated on this by
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tightening up the controls adding some
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quality of life changes and making
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sweeping balance adjustments like
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nerfing Estus flasks so they couldn't be
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used to avoid damage outright and made
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some tweaks our stats worked in order to
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make more
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weapon types and placed on viable Dark
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Souls 3 was another interpretation of
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the original game with faster paced more
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aggressive combat and a renewed focus on
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even meteor boss fights despite personal
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preferences between them it's clear to
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see that the core went unchanged even
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when the series branched out into stuff
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like blood-borne so answer me this
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what's the core of Dawn of War I can't
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work it out each for three games operate
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differently it's really hard to find a
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shared mechanical foundation upon which
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the series rests beyond the fact that
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they're all real time strategy games in
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the 40k universe these games are
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different to Dark Souls because for
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whatever reason they kind of throw the
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baby out with the bathwater and start
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over with every successive iteration
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this is the reason why there's such a
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wide gulf between fans of Dawn of War 1
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and Dawn of War 2 most either prefer one
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game or the other because each game has
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a very different core to understand what
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people love so much about the previous
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two games let's get back in time 10 or
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so years to play dawn for one the
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footage you're seeing here is from dark
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crusade it's not the most recent
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expansion but it's pretty much
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universally agreed to be the best one
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namely because it doesn't have the
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overpowered factions and rubbish air
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units introduced in Seoul storm the
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final expansion Dawn of War 1 is a macro
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RTS in every sense of the word it's all
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about fighting big battles with big
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armies with a focus on acquiring
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territory and coordinating large groups
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of units rather than effective use of
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abilities and type positioning though of
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course those things are still pretty
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important people love this game because
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it was all about macro play and
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high-level decision-making while still
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maintaining the viscera Matty and
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campaigners of the tabletop game Dawn of
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War 1 is very much a traditional RTS but
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it separates itself from the likes of
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Starcraft and command & Conquer by
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focusing on spectacle and a much slower
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deliberate pace to combat jump forward 5
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years and contrast that with Dawn of War
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two which ditched face building and big
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armies in exchange for a small group of
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squad
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led by a powerful hero unit well they
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might look cosmetically similar there's
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a lot that's been chopped and changed
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since door before one
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artillery ultimate units and static
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emplacements have been ditched in favor
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of much more micro intensive units such
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as heavy weapons teams which require
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setting up prior to a fight also a
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revamped much more important and heroes
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taking center stage on the battlefield
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this leads to a game that focuses much
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more on small action-packed skirmishes
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where every unit counts and tactics is
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king rather than management and planning
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ability these games are completely
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different and cater to very different
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kinds of players players who like dawn
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of war one for macro strategy and
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Titanic battles will find a pared down
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more fiddly game won't you for them
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endure to conversely those who like the
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sequel will pay dollar for one and say
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that it's shallow snowballing and
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throughout the core of these two
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experiences just isn't the same this is
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most easily seen in the single-player
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modes for each game Donna for one has a
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huge battle map where you control one
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faction of seven and have to coordinate
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a war to take over this planet by moving
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your army around it's pretty neat the
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whole thing plays out like a tabletop
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game it's a great way of shaking up once
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essentially a series of skirmishes by
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adding some cool alternate mission
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setups like this one where you've got a
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massive fixed army to take down a mega
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base or these missions that involve you
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seeing an enemy fortress the world map
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adds another layer of macro strategy on
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top of a game that's already about build
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orders and army composition by giving
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you an overarching goal to deal with
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Dawn of War two single-player on the
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other hand it's like if someone made
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Diablo into an RTS no I'm dead serious
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you control a party of four heroes and
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it's your job to chew through legions of
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dumb goons by using abilities and
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picking the right gear there's quite a
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lot of depth of the combat actually from
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what gear to picked up setting up cover
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and firing arcs defining real
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honest-to-god bosses in an RTS the dawn
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of War two campaign is absolutely nuts
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but it's also tactics and its most raw
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and intimate stripping away base
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building making units and tech trees in
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favour of a game way
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really all move counts and you actually
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get attached to your little space marine
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goons while these games might be poorly
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constructed as a series it's kind of
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okay because they're both great games by
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their own merits the issues start when
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you don't actually know what people want
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in your games because you've got no idea
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what the core of your series actually is
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that's what frustrates me about the
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whole dawn of war 3 sucks because they
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tried to make it into a MOBA argument
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that's a symptom of the problem not the
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cause the list of mechanics from MOBAs
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that donald wall 3 has that two dozen is
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actually pretty slim they've both got
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bases defended by turrets hero units
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farming etc the difference between them
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comes in relic missing what people
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actually liked about the first two games
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on the surface doable 3 is Ashley quite
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sleek the game is responsive the UI is
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nice the graphics are great and it seems
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to be trying to strike a middle ground
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between its two predecessors on one hand
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proper base building is back so a
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listening-posts and so most of the old
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units from Gulf War one on the other
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dedicated hero units are still about
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though even more powerful this time
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around so a heavy weapons teams and also
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a few targeted abilities from Dawn of
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War 2 but from the first mission of the
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campaign I could tell something was off
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when I forgot more units I had and what
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they could do see you in both of the
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other door of walls units were
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distinctive and had a variety of
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functions even on the most basic of
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levels nowhere can this be seen more
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clearly than in the humble Space Marine
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tactical team in dawn of war 1 you had a
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bunch of modular upgrades with which to
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customize the squad sergeants that boost
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morale targetable grenades and multiple
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copies of four different alternate
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weapons from flamethrowers to missile
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launchers all on a single factions basic
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ranged unit Dawn of War two tactical
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Marines have three mutually exclusive
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weapon upgrade choices an optional
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sergeant and two activatable abilities
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one that increases damaged against
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armoured units and one or a long
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cooldown that makes them temporarily
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immune to suppression despite being
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examples of two very different design
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philosophies each version of the
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tactical squad gives players a buttload
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of choices
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so what about Dawn of War three they
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well they can shoot guns
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alright in fairness they have a choice
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between a flamer which gives them a
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simple point-and-click ability or plasma
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guns which increase damage or make them
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have to cool off after a while
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which in itself is a feature nicht
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wholesale from the eldest basic ranged
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unit whose single active ability is to
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throw a grenade wait hang on a second
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the orcs basic ranged unit also only has
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one ability and each of the factions is
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roughly the same but Space Marines have
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better vehicles and some artillery units
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orcs have cheap units and a numbers
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advantage and then Eldar have expensive
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powerful units with our shields oh no no
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no no no no no no they've gone and done
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it the madmen
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they just made Starcraft alright alright
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I'm kinda joking here but it's pretty
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undeniable that a lot of the tactical
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nuance that would have been in Dawn of
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War 3 was sacrificed on the altar of the
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chaos got eSports that's the really
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frustrating thing about the game there's
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the shell of a great tile here if only
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had been designed with a semblance of
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integrity and a unified vision instead
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it stretches itself too thin trying to
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pander to a new audience all the while
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trying to appeal to both camps of
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returning players under the mistaken
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idea that they'll be satisfied by token
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implementations of ideas that should
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have stayed in the older versions cover
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is technically in the game but it's been
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reduced to these weird little fortified
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locations to have even less mechanical
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depth than garrison herbal buildings
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Dorna for one's big stompy units are
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back but they're now relegated to being
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so-called elite units and they
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completely dominate the battlefield
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rather than being countable by smaller
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units some units have set up times like
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heavy teams in dawn of war to used to
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but without firing arcs and proper
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suppression they may as well be turrets
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hero units to have the same problems as
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the rest of the game despite having a
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choice between more than 10 they all
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feel so shallow and homogeneous for the
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most part they've usually got one or two
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of the
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following a jump slash charge an anti
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infantry AoE or a buff slash debuff and
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that's about it
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there's no interesting tactical
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decisions here you just use their
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abilities on cooldown and they
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completely dominate the battlefield
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their only real competition is either
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another hero unit or an elite unit when
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making dawn of war 3
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Vladek tried to strike a middle ground
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between Dawn of War one and two to
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appeal to both sides but they clearly
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didn't know what the enjoyable core
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experience of these two games actually
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was Dawn of War 3 has neither the rich
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network of macro level decisions of
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Donna for one nor the moment-to-moment
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slugfest enus of da war - it's this
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horrible generic mess of a game and that
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is it's real crime Dawn of War 3 is a
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testament to cynical mediocrity and it
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deserved to get treated as such
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developers make this mistake all the
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time and the best example I can think of
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its Resident Evil Capcom have this
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horrible habit of making a great game
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and then slowly going off the rails as
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they forget what made the original
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popular and then wising up and going
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back to their roots only to repeat the
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same mistakes Resident Evil 1 was a
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great horror experience and then 2 & 3
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made some mechanical strides but they
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controlled like trying to do heart
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surgery with a chainsaw and were trying
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way too hard to take herself seriously
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Resident Evil 4 was a soft reboot on the
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series and allow Capcom to lean into the
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campy territory they've been failing to
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avoid up until now while modernizing the
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classic formula of ammo conservation and
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tense survival horror but the silliness
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turned up to 11 the game was free to
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really commit to being a no Marsh to
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pulpy horror movies like the Texas
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Chainsaw Massacre with stuff like
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they're crazy Spanish cultists the
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Giants and of course the chainsaw guy
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unfortunately it also led to Resident
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Evil 5 & 6 which abandoned the core
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elements of the series that gradually
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transform it into a series of dumb
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action movies with increasingly loose
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interpretations of survival horror which
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of course meant the series had to be
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rebooted yet again into Resident Evil
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seven a game modeled after more modern
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Skyrim ups but with the Resident Evil
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formula restored once it
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Rati seven retains the pulpy campus of
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four but doesn't lose sight of what made
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the great games in this series fun tents
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combat memorable if slightly silly
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characters and the difficult decisions
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you've got to make to survive and
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conserve your resources they even
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managed to make the story on ironically
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good
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I think Resident Evil's director masa
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chica quwata says it best in this
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interview with Wow
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Forbes buddy okay he says we drew
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influence for the series survival horror
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roots and resi 7 actually has a lot in
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common with the first Resident Evil game
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we wanted Resident Evil 7 to embody the
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core of what Resident Evil experienced
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is elements of fear and horror plus the
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ability to overcome them now if that's
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not the core Resident Evil I don't know
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what is despite a change from fixed
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camera carpal tunnel simulator to
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third-person shooter to first-person
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shooter Resident Evil as we know it has
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survived the transition fortunately the
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same just can't be said for Dawn of War
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because relic doesn't know what Dawn of
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War actually is the core of Dawn of War
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is probably a lot of different things to
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a lot of different people but whatever
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it is I think we can all agree it sure
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as hell isn't this
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[Music]
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you
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