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Rappers Young Thug and Gunna Face RICO Charges - YouTube
Channel: MSNBC
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let's discuss joining me now is msnbc
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legal analyst civil rights attorney and
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former brooklyn prosecutor uh charles
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coleman jr charles thanks so much for
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being here i want to get into this
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because the indictment against young
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thug paints a picture of his record
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label as a cover for criminal activities
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and gang recruitment reigned over uh by
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the rapper he's accused of over 30 rico
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violations um let's start with what
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exactly the rico act is and point out in
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no way in any part of this this
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conversation are we defending what young
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thug did this is more about a larger
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conversation and precedent setting using
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rap lyrics uh against uh defendants so
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talk us through the rico act
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well good morning tiffany the ricoh act
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was established in the 70s and it's it's
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primarily intent uh and was in turn it
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was intended to basically prosecute
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organized crime mafiosos uh mob types
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and the crimes that they were looking to
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target with the ricoh act when it was
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initially introduced were around mail
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fraud around tax evasion around things
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of that nature now of course there is an
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expanded view of the rico law that has
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since become around homicide violent
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crime other different criminal
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enterprises but the whole point of
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introducing the reach rico act in 1970
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was really about organized crime not of
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this nature this expansion that we've
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seen recently to sort of get into the
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notion of gang activity that we're
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looking at with regard to young thug
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that is something entirely new and not
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what the ricoh act was intentionally uh
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passed and ratified to do
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yeah it was once used to indict the
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mafia um since in 2014 bobby schmerter
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and 15 members of his crew were arrested
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on a conspiracy indictment um and other
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rappers have been caught up in this um
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during the hearing prosecutors uh quoted
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young thug's lyrics when arguing that he
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brags about shooting another rapper's
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mother or a rapper yfn lucci's mother uh
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in his 2021 collaborative single with
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juice world bad boy um aside from the
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morality of this because i did read the
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lyrics um i think i'm a bit out of young
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thugs demographic but i did read the
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lyrics um
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i'm not defending that you know at all
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by any means um
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whether or not he shot this man's mother
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the fact that he was rapping about it i
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found kind of disgusting but i i'm a
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hip-hop girl i promise you um i feel
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like using rap lyrics against rappers
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that seems like a violation of the first
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amendment to me am i wrong
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well speaking as a former prosecutor i
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can tell you this is a really slippery
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slope tiffany it presents a lot of
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different issues as you and i know as i
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am very much so a hip-hop head myself
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the way that we use language when it
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comes to talking about our everyday
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lives is something that is different and
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not necessarily easily understood by
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outside culture and so speaking now as a
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former prosecutor to take people who do
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not understand cultural translation and
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then to have them with words or lyrics
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that they believe may mean one thing or
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signify something that they do not and
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put them in front of a jury puts
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defendants at a significant disadvantage
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and i think that people need to
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understand when you're talking about
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juries and prosecutors i can tell you
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that prosecutors enjoy a lot of latitude
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in terms of believability because we
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have the the backing of the state we're
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representing the state so people
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automatically sort of give us a level of
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credence even though they're told not to
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when it comes to what we bring so even
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if we don't understand what the lyrics
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say if we put that in front of a jury it
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is possible that is going to tilt the
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scales in our favor now what i will say
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is that when you have clear and
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convincing corroboration in the case of
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yfn's mom actually being shot and then
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you have someone who has claimed to
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actually do that on record that's when
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those lyrics are going to come into play
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and be used in a corroborating fashion
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it doesn't mean that he did it it
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doesn't mean that he's going to be found
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guilty because of it because there's
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still the standard of guilty until i'm
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sorry innocent until proven guilty and
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and by by without uh by reasonable doubt
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without reasonable doubt excuse me lose
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my words tonight right um
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you're dropping bars anyway brother so
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go for it
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appreciate it and so that is still
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something that has to be proven but when
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you look at how rap lyrics are used in
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court that is where it comes into play
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if there is clear and convincing
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corroboration in terms of what actually
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happened and what can be established and
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then the lyrics ultimately sort of
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buttress that and they confirm that
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almost as if it's a confession then you
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will likely see them come into play but
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just bar none no that's not something
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that should be used against defendants
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in court of law
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well in maryland in 2019 uh the maryland
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court of appeals ruled it legal to use
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rap lyrics as evidence in murder trials
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um i think that's something that could
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potentially be
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concerning um and you're right when you
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talk about cultural competency listen
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you and i we're on television before a
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lot of people right now but we could
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have a whole conversation in our
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language that is only understood by a
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certain sect of society and so i do it
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is concerning um the door that this
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could open and the legal precedent this
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could set um
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could there be a scenario in which a
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rapper is rapping about something um
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that is more allegory um and and
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prosecutors use that as something to
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bring a case against him because i think
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in the young thug case there's an
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there's a crime and they're saying well
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here are all these lyrics where you
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rapped about it could prosecutors then
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say well we don't know the crime yet but
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you said these things in a song ergo
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we're going to go after you or at least
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start investigating you based on what
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you rapped about
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well i think that that's possible but
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necessarily not not necessarily likely i
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think that when you start talking about
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the the final points around an
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investigation i.e getting search
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warrants and things of that nature that
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require a different level a different
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standard of proof around what it was
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what it would take to actually get those
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things approved that's not going to be
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enough the fact that someone said you
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know something that sounds like it might
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be going down or might happen that's not
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going to be enough for a just to sign a
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search warrant um without some other
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proof of the fact that these things have
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actually put in motion um and so absent
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that i don't see that happening but what
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we're seeing across the country in
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different legislatures like you
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mentioned in maryland and now in new
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york are different sides and different
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takes on how rap lyrics and how lyrics
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and creative material can be used in
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court against defendants and new york
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just passed the law recently in in-state
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assembly maryland passed a law on the
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other side and so i expect that we're
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going to continue to see this play out
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in a number of different ways depending
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on where you are and where you live
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yeah well you know young thug
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could be facing 20 years each um for
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each count
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atlanta district attorney fannie willis
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um is looking to pursue the maximum uh
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penalties against him but again i wanted
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to have a larger conversation just
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around hip-hop in general um and i think
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targeting some of these record labels
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which are businesses that black men or
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uh and black people black women and men
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are building and running it sets a
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slippery slope when law enforcement
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starts
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going after that so you'll have to come
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back as we keep watching this case
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[Music]
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you
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