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Dr Andrew Gallimore - Using the Neuroscience of Information to Understand Reality - Effects of DMT - YouTube
Channel: unknown
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[Music]
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I'm a neuroscientist I'm interested in
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the brain I'm interested in
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consciousness but really uh I've come to
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realize over the last few years but I'm
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really interested in worlds I'm
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interested in the way that being a
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conscious being fundamentally is about
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being in a world when you emerge
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screaming from the womb as a newborn you
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are thrown into a world when you descend
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into REM sleep at night you emerge in a
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world that is very similar not quite the
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same as the normal waking world and when
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you inhale 30 milligrams of a drug like
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DMT which is what I'm particularly
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interested in you enter world far
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stranger than any of those and that
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seemed to burn a relationship to the
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normal waking world so whenever I speak
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to people about DMT which I seem to do
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quite a lot these days they all say yes
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okay it's an astonishing experience
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incredible it's amazing it's
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unbelievable etc etc but is it real and
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this is a really difficult question and
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I'm not going to promise to have a
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definitive answer but I'm going to have
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to point towards how we might think
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about this problem I think part of the
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problem with this this question really
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is that it's often very poorly
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formulated when people ask that question
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is it real they don't really know what
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they mean by real you know what is the
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difference between a real world and then
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an unreal world and in a sense all
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worlds we experience are kind of real
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the dream world is reeling that you are
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experiencing a world but that seemed
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kind of different right from the world
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we're experiencing now what we might
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call a sense the world
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Chris spoke about a world that is
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connected to the environment and I'll
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talk a little bit about that so I will
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start with my kind of fundamental axiom
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which is that your world what we call
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your phenomenal world your own personal
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subjective world the only world you will
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ever know is always built from
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information generated by your brain does
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some of you that will make some kind of
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sense to others perhaps not so I'm going
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to spend quite a bit of time actually
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thinking about first of all what is
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information and how the brain generates
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information and how that relates to the
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world you experience and then we can try
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and relate that to the dmt world this is
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written by one of my favorite author
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Terman Hester almost 100 years to the
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day I would suggest if the outside world
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fell in ruins one of us would be capable
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of building it up again
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from mountain the stream tree and leaf
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root and blossom all that is shaped by
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nature lies modeled in us and whilst
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that was written in a hundred years ago
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now it perfectly encapsulates how we
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think about the worlds constructed by a
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brain we might say in modern
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neuroscience parlance your phenomenal
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world is a model of the environment
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built from information so Ray's
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information if I ask ten of you now for
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a definition of information put your
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phones away I'm not going to ask you you
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might let me get ten different answers
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because information is something we
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intuitively understand it's what we know
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about something versus perhaps what we
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don't know but I'm going to operate a
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more formal definition which will at
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first seem rather abstract and perhaps
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seem a little abstruse but it will all
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begin to make sense those of you haven't
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seen me talk before what I plan to do is
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try to explain complex neuro scientific
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topics and concepts in a
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digestible form often this involves some
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simplification I'm saying this because
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there might be neuroscientists in the
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audience please forgive me so
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information is generated when a system
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selects between a fight night number of
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distinct states so let's take a simple
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example a coin so oh my gosh
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who said that this coin has no heads
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however it's a gift Japanese coin but
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typically a coin will have one of two
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states either a head or a tail this
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could equally be described as a 1 or a 0
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or a yes or no or a plus or a minus or a
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black or a white it doesn't matter by
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the way if you're thinking this display
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some kind of support for Trump it
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doesn't yeah I know my audience so so
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whenever a system a simple to state
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system like this select with equal
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probability between one or two states it
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generates perhaps the most fundamental
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unit of information which all of you
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will be to some extent familiar with and
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that is the bit so here we have a blue
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and a yellow square so the square can I
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be blue or it can be illa we could label
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that with a water 0 or a 1 it flips
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between those states when you select one
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states crucially it won't seem crucial
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now but it will later crucially by
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selecting one state it rules out the
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other state and this is how the
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information is generated so we say a
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two-state system encodes a single bit of
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information now of course we all know
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that computers use bits they use large
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numbers of these simple to state systems
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to generate very very large amounts of
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information so you can combine simple to
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state systems such as here we've got to
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forming a larger system and now
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we've got four state we've got blue blue
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yellow yellow blue yellow yellow blue so
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we've generated now more information by
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increasing the number of these simple to
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state systems and we can do that
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formally this encodes two bits of
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information so we can extend this with
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many many of these very very simple
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systems that generate vast amounts of
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very very complex information this
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brings us back to the brain and the idea
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that the brain constructs a world from
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information so let's take that idea and
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translate it into how we understand the
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brains work so when we're talking about
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the information generation in the brain
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I'm really focusing on this outer layer
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of the brain the the cortex this folded
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structure that formed the envelope of
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your brain so it's this so if you
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actually look and dissect a cortex and
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actually examine it you see lots of
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these little cells evil neurons here
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which form a very very dense and complex
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network but they fall themselves into
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these cylindrical kind of structures
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called columns cortical columns are no
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cortical columns and these are thought
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to be the kind of the fundamental
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computational units of the brain above
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the level of the neuron so in my talks I
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normally represent these columns from
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above so the bird's eye view so this is
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kind of a column from the side they have
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a number of layers which are important
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for information processing but we'll
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just look at them from above so this is
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what you're seeing you're seeing court
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in columns you would look at the the
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cortex from a bird's eye view kind of a
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above like that in microscopic sort of
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microscopic level of detail you would
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see a sort of a mosaic of these columns
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and these columns very very highly
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oversimplified sense we can think of as
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either being active or inactive so we
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can think that perhaps being in the zero
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state or the ones that the our mistake
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or the off state so these gray ones here
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we will say off and then you have yellow
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ones which are on so now you should be
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able to think to yourself that this is
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generating information each of these
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cortical columns can switch between two
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states and by combining very very large
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numbers of these columns we can generate
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vast amounts of information and it's
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this information that is your phenomenal
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world experience subjectively experience
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from within
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now when the brain selects one state ie
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one particular pattern of calm
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activation it is ruling out vast numbers
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of other possible states think about the
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number of possible combinations of the
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billions of columns in your brain and
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when your brain selects one it moves out
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vast numbers of others that means it
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generates vast amounts of information
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that's the key to understanding
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information generation in the brain so
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we can say each pattern of column is a
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single state of the cortex which by
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ruling out Boston was a lot a possible
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state encodes a huge amount of
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information if you want to know exactly
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how much this is kind of a ballpark
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figure 2.5 million gigabytes which is a
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lot now something else that the brain
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does these columns aren't just totally
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independent and kind of firing switch on
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and off randomly because that would
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generate an enormous amount of
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information but it would be completely
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useless your brain has to generate a
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kind of a model of the world that is
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that is that is functional that does its
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job that allows you to make predictions
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and kind of or even take yourself and
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and and survive and reproduce ultimately
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so what the brain does is its scope
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study information by forming connections
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there are a number of different types of
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connections we're going to collapse them
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down with these sort of simple lines
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between the the court of polymers and
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this allows the brain to sculpt the
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information by allowing columns this to
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interact
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so when one column is active it can
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speak to other columns and I'd switch
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them on perhaps or switch them off and
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so this restricts the number of states
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that the brain can adopt that the cortex
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can adopt and provides a limited what
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it's now more more between called a
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repertoire of states so your world model
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this model of the environment that
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Herman has to wrote about 100 years ago
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we now know is encoded by the pattern of
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activation of the columns or in other
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terms your world model is a highly
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complex pattern of information and now
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you now understand how that information
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is generated now of course that is
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incomplete because of course this model
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isn't simply generated entirely
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internally but has some kind of
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relationship to the environment there's
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a mapping between what's going on out
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there
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ie the information being generated in
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the so called external world and this
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world model which is being generated
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internally now if you open the textbook
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neuroscience textbook you'll probably
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see something like this so the
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information comes from the sense is the
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retina let's say it passes through a
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number of strangely labeled regions of
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the brain which we won't worry about and
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the simplified sense we can see that
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sensory information is passed to what we
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call of lower order areas of the cortex
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or primary sensory areas these are
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responsible for kind of kind of
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representing very very simple features
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of the world lines the orientation of
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lines things like that and then that
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information is passed to higher-order
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levels where things like texture and
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color will be picked out of that
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information and sent to lead generated
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and then finally to these very high
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order areas the brain is actually very
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much more specific than will responsible
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for generating the information then
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codes things like faces or animals etc
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but this is kind of we now understand
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this is a little bit this kind of what
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we might call a bottom-up model of world
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building is probably not quite true
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so the
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is kind of how it would look in your
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traditional model and relating this to
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our pattern of cortical column
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activation the sensory information
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activate these lower order area and
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generates a specific pattern of activity
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that information is then passed to the
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higher order and generates a pattern of
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activity there which then by the
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connectivity then generates a pattern or
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activity there but overall despite this
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being a hierarchical system overall you
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can see that the the world is modeled as
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this unified of activation okay so this
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is a bottom-up information flow model
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however we now know actually that this
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is probably not quite correct and that
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really that the brain has a very good
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model of the world and it doesn't
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require sensory information as such in
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order to construct that model and you
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all know that you all or most of you I
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assume have had dreams when the sensory
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information is disconnected from the
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environment and yet your brain would
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build is perfectly capable of building a
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very realistic or in many senses
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identical model reality has a number of
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differences we'll talk about so what we
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actually think is happening is that
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these higher-order areas are actually
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predicting the activity the pattern of
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activation that's going to happen in the
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low order area and then the lower this
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lower order area predicts the pattern of
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activation in this even or an area and
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this lower audit areas responsible
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predicting the sensory information that
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it's going to receive so this is a some
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kind of pattern of sensory information
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coming from the environment and when
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this works everything is fine the brain
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doesn't need to really do anything it's
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model is correct this is a very
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economical way of working by the way if
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the model is working fine however
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sometimes the model will be incorrect
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and the sensory information won't match
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the prediction and then you get
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prediction errors there's a discrepancy
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here are represented by these pink
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columns showing errors in the model so
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how does the brain deal with this pretty
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cars away how does the planning deal
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with this
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so the original model is incorrect and
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so what you do is you update the model
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when you update the model things work
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again so this is kind of a summary of
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how this works the brain generates a
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model of the world using information the
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model is used to make predictions about
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expected sensory information and these
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predictions are compared with the actual
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sensory information and then any
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discrepancies are generating these
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prediction errors and these prediction
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errors actually flow upwards through
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this sense we hierarchy and then these
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prediction errors are used to refine the
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model and this is going on all the time
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so your brain is constantly testing its
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model against send some information and
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this gives us a clue the first kind of
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clue of how we might think about the dmt
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world the way that this sensed world so
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the world we're all experiencing now the
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way that it is modeled by the brain and
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continuously tested against sensory
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information gives it a number of
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properties its stable its predictable
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and it's consistent these are absolutely
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essential the world is not going to be
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useful if it isn't all of these things
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and it has a number of other qualities
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of as well what you should notice about
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this is that we're actually thinking
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about the the way the world is
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constructed and the properties of the
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world that are a consequence of the way
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the world is constructed a sensed world
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has certain properties that are a direct
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consequence of the fact that it is a
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model that is constantly being
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stood against sensory data so we'll
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relate that to the dmt world shortly now
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when we descend into REM sleep at night
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the normal kind of primary sensory area
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so this is a wake ray which receives
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this sensation at the back of the plane
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the primary areas these are going to
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shut down during dreaming as are these
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frontal areas as well which normally
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provide the critical faculties that
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allow you to would normally allow you to
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realize that this dream is getting
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rather weird they kind of shut down as
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well which is why you don't normally
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aware of the kind of the weirdness and
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bizarreness of dreams sometimes anyway
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so your brain is left to build its model
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without access to sensory information so
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normally when you're awake as we just
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see that a model is being tested all the
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time against a sensory information
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however in the dream state no model
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testing is possible so the brain is
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unable to constantly update and refine
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its model now that has a number of
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consequences for the structure of the
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world so the dream world tends to be
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less stable it's less predictable it's
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less consistent the scene might shift
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from the front garden to the inside of
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an aircraft it becomes less predictable
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and weird illogical irrational perhaps
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impossible things can happen so it loses
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the qualities of a sensed world and this
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is a plant world force now when you put
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a psychedelic into the brain and again
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I'm massively over simplifying here I
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won't go into the neurobiology but I
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think the way I like to think about what
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psychedelics are doing normally this
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these connectivity that is organized
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into these networks maintains a degree
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of order and control over the
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information whereas when you add a
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psychedelic you get Chi
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like a democratization of these portable
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columns so you get they tend to adopt a
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larger number of states you get an
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increase in the so called State
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repertoire under the influence of
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psychedelics unless the the brain moves
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through these states much more freely
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also appears as an increase in the
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disorder or the entropy of the brain
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also the brain becomes less capable of
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generating its model of the world it's
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less successful in in predicting sensory
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information and as a result you get
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increased prediction errors which means
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actually that more information is
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flowing upwards more information is
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actually flowing up from the environment
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into the brain so how does that feel
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subjectively so brain selects from a
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larger number of states that should
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immediately make you think up that means
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that it's generating more information
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and that creates a richer world the
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brain moves more freely between these
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states because this these networks don't
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exhibit the same level of control so the
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world becomes less stable less
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predictable more fluid more dreamlike
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one way it's like and these increased
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prediction errors that are passed
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upwards through the sensory hierarchy
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are experienced as an increase in the
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sensitivity to sensory information well
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what about the MT with DMT something
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altogether different seems to happen so
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evey
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so this is kind of annoyin Orval kind of
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waking consensus world model and when
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you take a normal dose of our
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psychedelic such as LSD or psilocybin
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mescaline you get this democratization
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in the court of corals you get this
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increasing in entropy and you enter more
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fluid state but when you smoke a
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breakthrough dose of DMT something
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rather different happened it zipped the
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brain is shifting to a completely
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model rather than simply a kind of
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distortion or a and altered altered
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version non distortion an altered
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version of its usual model so then we
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can ask the question that is that the NT
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world a sensed world or is it a drunked
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world does it have the properties that
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we have already outlined and explained
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in terms of the world construction that
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a sensed world has is it a world model
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that is being tested against sensory
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information if that's true that suggests
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the brain is receiving information from
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some other source and that would suggest
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that the empty world is in a sense
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really however if the DMT State
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possesses more of the properties of a
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dreamt world then that would make that
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assumption of reality a little bit more
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difficult to justify so if we think that
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the DMT world is a real world this means
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the model DMT world model is being
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tested against sensory information so
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this is what happens of course in the
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normal waking world we got sensory
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information from the consensus world and
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if the DMT world was indeed a sense
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world it would be there would be some
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kind of data input from elsewhere who
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knows and the DMT world world would
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exhibit the properties of a sensed world
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what you should notice here which I
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think is key is that we're trying to get
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at the reality of the the DMT world
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without trying to reach into it other
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people have proposed no we should get
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the elves to do mathematical problems
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can you give me their unique prime
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factors of this very large number please
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but I think this is perhaps not the best
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approach you know it's difficult enough
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to get into our world and such but to
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get into the DMT world to reach into it
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and test it in some way to kind of ask
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it to prove its reality I think is a
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very difficult thing to do but what this
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way
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thinking allows us to do is to think
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about the way the world is constructed
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and think does the dmt world have
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properties of a sensed world or a draft
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world if it's a draft world then we
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should expect to see the properties of a
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drannit world and it would mean that the
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the dmt world is indeed isolated from
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the environment as Chris made the
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assumption of earlier in his lecture and
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that is the kind of the Orthodox
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assumption is that is a world that is
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isolated from the environment certainly
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isolated from this environment but it is
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or is it also completely isolated from
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all environments or is there some other
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environment some other place to which
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DMT gates access so we might ask
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questions of the DMT State later on I'm
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going to talk about a new continuous
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infusion technology I developed with
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Rick Strassman which allows you to stay
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in the DMT state for as many hours or
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days at a time I'd have a breakthrough
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level I'm not accepting volunteer and we
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could actually test the the nature of
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the world and the these volunteers these
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voyagers really would would would be
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able to examine the features and
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actually kind of map the qualities of
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the world and ask questions such as is
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it a stable world we think initially oh
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it's not a stable world it's a crazy
[1544]
wild world but actually I think the part
[1548]
of the problem with that is that most
[1550]
people stay in this breakthrough state
[1551]
for a very short period of time
[1552]
it needs time to develop its model and
[1555]
to stabilize its model I think that will
[1557]
actually happen if you give somebody DMT
[1561]
over a much more extended periods with
[1563]
my last question is it predictable is it
[1565]
consistent does it have these properties
[1567]
so I kind of envisaged time in the
[1570]
future where we will we will develop a
[1574]
map of the qualities of the DMT space
[1577]
and we will be able to make that
[1579]
comparison and say does this world look
[1581]
like a world that is being dreamt or
[1584]
loosen ated or does it look like a world
[1586]
that is some sense being sensed
[1593]
okay so just summarizing not to over so
[1599]
all for none of the world's are built
[1601]
from information generated by your brain
[1603]
you now know exactly how that works and
[1605]
we can imagine that that sensed worlds
[1608]
and imagined or dreamt or hallucinating
[1610]
worlds can be differentiated by their
[1615]
characteristics and the way they are
[1616]
constructed by the brain rather than
[1618]
trying to try and get into the world in
[1619]
itself and by identifying the particular
[1623]
phenomenological and neurological
[1625]
qualities of these different types of
[1627]
world would perhaps give us a way of
[1629]
finally answering that question of
[1632]
whether the DMT world looks more like a
[1634]
sense world in which case Chris and
[1637]
Robin will have a lot to answer for or
[1640]
if it is as they might lean towards just
[1644]
a blue cemented world and I will stop
[1647]
that thank you so much
[1651]
[Applause]
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