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Joint Bank Account After Mother Died - Do I Tell My Sisters? | Real Attorney Reacts - YouTube
Channel: Burton Law LLC
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Welcome back to Real Attorney Reacts.
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I'm Attorney Thomas Burton. I'm an estate planning聽聽
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and asset protection attorney here in Wisconsin聽
and in this series, I take real reader questions聽聽
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and analyze them under Wisconsin law聽
for the benefit of all our viewers.
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So today's question was just submitted聽
this week to The Moneyist columnist聽聽
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and again, it has to do with money in an聽
inheritance. We're going to get right into聽聽
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it. I'll read you excerpts of the question聽
and then provide my commentary and analysis聽聽
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of how this would play out under聽
Wisconsin law as we go along.
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The headline is, "I took care of聽
my late mother for eight years.聽聽
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Am I obliged to tell my sister, she made聽
me co-owner of a substantial bank account?"
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Okay, so once again, bank accounts, joint聽
bank accounts are rearing their head,聽聽
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in this question. You're going to聽
see the issues as we go through it.
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This daughter writes, "My mom passed away.聽聽
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Three daughters shared power of attorney聽
and are shared executors of her trust."聽聽
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I think she means shared trustees of her trust聽
because you can only have an executor of a will聽聽
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but it sounds like they had a trust and聽
the three daughters were shared trustees.
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"As the youngest daughter, I worked full time and聽
was the primary caregiver for my mom for eight聽聽
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years. I managed her activities of living, food,聽
bathroom visits, medicine, medical appointment and聽聽
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performed her dialysis etc. I managed her finances聽
including taxes, investment and even reclaimed聽聽
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thousands of dollars for my mom due to a bad聽
business deal she was involved in the past.聽聽
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In 2013, it upset my sisters when I聽
was initially given power of attorney聽聽
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but I decided to share the responsibility and even聽
enlisted an attorney to formally draft a trust."
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So that's where the trust came聽
in that they were co-they were聽聽
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all co-trustees with their sisters it sounds like.
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"We were all present during this conversation.聽
Years later, my sisters would only come down聽聽
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two times a year, sometimes less, to visit mom and聽
did not do much at all to contribute to her care.聽聽
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My mom received a pension and social security聽
benefits. She also had the means to afford聽聽
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a full-time caregiver during the days when I聽
was at work for at least two years. I oversaw聽聽
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all of her care during the evenings,聽
even when we went on vacation with her.聽聽
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Long-term care would have cost substantially聽
more and would have exhausted my mom's finances.聽聽
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My mom also wished to remain聽
and receive care at home."
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So according to this question, it sounds like聽
she's honoring her mother's wishes to stay at home聽聽
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and she's right, I mean I don't know how much it聽
was costing but my guess is it was less at home.聽聽
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The average classic private nursing home care聽
in Wisconsin, statewide is around $8,000 plus聽聽
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per month, per room. So it's likely they聽
were saving money, you know, especially聽聽
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with the daughter providing the care and just聽
having the caregivers come in during the day.
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"In order to appease my sisters and聽
because they felt it was not fair that I聽聽
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inherited a house from my father, their stepfather聽聽
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who also passed in 2013. I decided to disinherit聽
a portion of my mom's investments annuities."
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So I'm not sure what she means there but聽
apparently she did that along the way.
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"My mom was upset about this and asked me to be聽
a joint owner on her savings account in 2013,聽聽
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after we met with her attorney. Since then I cared聽
for her in our house and even responsibly managed聽聽
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her finances which gained significant interest聽
over the years. Now that my mom has passed, we are聽聽
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going to discuss her estate which is significant聽
and most of the beneficiaries of the account聽聽
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are my sisters, on the account are my sisters聽
except for the joint savings account which has聽聽
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a large sum of liquid cash in it. My conscience聽
is getting the better of me and I would like to聽聽
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be transparent about being the joint owner of this聽
savings account. However, I do not feel they are聽聽
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entitled to any of the money in it as they hardly聽
participate in the care and financial support of聽聽
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our mom. We all had power of attorney but they聽
did not do much to help which is now irrelevant聽聽
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anyway. However my sisters are also listed聽
as paid on death beneficiaries. I am willing聽聽
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to divide her state fairly and distribute the聽
amount to be received by each sister equitably."
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So here's her question, to聽
The Moneyist, who again is聽聽
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an advice columnist, personal finance columnist聽
not an attorney but a money advice columnist.
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"Am I obligated to inform them of this joint聽
savings account? I have already informed the bank,聽聽
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social security, her credit card companies and聽
her retirement pension that she has passed.聽聽
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As a joint owner I have access聽
to her account by survivorship",聽聽
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which is true. "How should I discuss the聽
equitable distribution with my sisters?聽聽
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They will be coming down in a week and聽
I have to attend the funeral. I plan to聽聽
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have this conversation with them the next day聽
after the funeral before they leave. We are聽聽
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cordial and I am close with one sister but when聽
finances and heightened emotions are involved,聽聽
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it can get hairy" - signs saddened by the loss聽
of mom and suffering from inheritance guilt.
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So there's a lot in this question聽
that I thought would be useful聽聽
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to unpack today and again you could see聽
the joint bank accounts causing some,聽聽
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most were split but then this one was聽
left just to this daughter as the joint聽聽
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owner instead of passing through the trust聽
she's the joint owner. So technically,聽聽
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the bank becomes her, the account becomes her聽
account upon her mom's death. It sounds like聽聽
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her other two sisters are named as payable on聽
death beneficiaries, so if this youngest daughter聽聽
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passed then they would receive the cut. That's the聽
way it sounds to me but it's a little confusing.
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So I'll give you The Moneyist short advice聽
and then I'll provide my full analysis.
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"Dear saddened and guilt, this money was聽
your mother's gift to you. It was her way聽聽
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of saying thank you. It sounds like you would聽
feel better if you were transparent about all聽聽
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of your mother's finances. The joint bank聽
account and its contents are technically聽聽
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your finances now of course. So you're聽
under no obligation to tell them about it."
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He's correct on that. If it was Wisconsin聽
law, it's a joint bank account, it's hers聽聽
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after death if she's the聽
only remaining joint owner.
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"However, should they discover this聽
account and ask questions about it,聽聽
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it could look to them as if you are hiding聽
something even when you have nothing to hide.聽聽
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This account does not have to go through probate聽
at all. So that is not a given" and he's right聽聽
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about that, joint bank account would pass by title聽
upon death and it wouldn't have to go through聽聽
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probate. So it's not necessarily a public probate聽
court process where they would find out about it.聽聽
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However, like he said if they do find out about聽
it, it could appear like hiding something.
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"When you're faced with a difficult situation,聽聽
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I've always found the easiest way through it聽
is to tell the truth as bluntly as you need聽聽
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to without rank or fear. Your sisters may聽
shrug their shoulders and say fair enough聽聽
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or they might cry foul. If they had a聽
problem with your father leaving his home,聽聽
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you his home was probably fair to say that聽
at least one of your siblings will raise an聽聽
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eyebrow at the amount of money in this account.聽
You are under no obligation to tell them."
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So I think he stated the legal obligation聽
correctly but clearly pros and cons聽聽
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without knowing the people involved聽
telling them versus not telling them.
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"If they do feel sore tough say it aloud with聽
me, they had plenty of time to help out with聽聽
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your mother over the last eight years. I'm sure聽
they had reasons why they couldn't be there.聽聽
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Paid on death beneficiaries only inherit money聽
from a joint account when the last owner dies.聽聽
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So even if you pre-decease your sisters, you are聽
under no obligation to do anything else but spend聽聽
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every last dime, in the account if you so choose.聽
After all, it's your money, spend as you like."
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So that's where it's getting at, it sounds聽
like the two sisters are payable on death聽聽
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after this youngest. So if she left the聽
money in that account, then they would get聽聽
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it after she's gone but it's technically聽
her money. She could close the account,聽聽
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move it into a different account that type聽
of thing,. If it makes you feel better to,聽聽
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I'm not saying she has to do that, I'm just聽
saying it's possible once it's her money.
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"If it makes you feel better to tell them,聽聽
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that's fine but do not allow them to guilt聽
you into defying this money among them.聽聽
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Tell them mother made me the joint owner聽
on her bank account. I'm very grateful聽聽
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that she did. Ask yourself, do you feel guilty聽
about having this account, you should not or聽聽
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do you feel fearful about your sister's reaction,聽
should they learn about from you or someone else.聽聽
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It would help to know the root of your anxiety聽
to help you absolve you of any such fears."
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He's right about that. She should聽
examine what she's thinking about here.
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"If you decide not to tell them, that's聽
fine, just ask your lawyer first."
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So I think that's good advice. The lawyer involved聽
here, if she doesn't have one, she should get one,聽聽
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explain this situation in detail and then get some聽
good advice on this because that might help her聽聽
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decide whether she should tell this information聽
or whether it's going to lead to more problems.
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"There is no right or wrong,聽
ethical answer to this question."
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So The Moneyist is sort of answering,聽
trying to answer her ethical question.
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"You must do what feels right for you but聽
make sure you do it for the right reasons.聽聽
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Don't act out of fear or guilt and do not聽
act out of fear or guilt, do what your聽聽
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confident, comfortable-self would do. Say聽
nothing and whistle all your way to the bank聽聽
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or say something and silently whistle your way聽
through your sister's possible protestation.聽聽
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You have the full support of聽
The Moneyist, either way."
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So I think he gave her, a lot of these people聽
are just seeking like a second opinion and聽聽
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someone who sees these often and if you've seen聽
my other videos in this series, they get a lot聽聽
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of questions especially lately about money and聽
inherited money and specifically bank account.聽聽
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So for this one what I want to point out聽
again is the dangers of having a joint聽聽
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bank account with someone and using that as the聽
method to pass it upon death. It does work and聽聽
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it avoids probate however my question here is if聽
they went through the trouble to set up the trust,聽聽
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why did the mother do this one bank account this聽
way because what I see happen is sometimes people聽聽
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try to set up bank accounts to this person, that聽
person and then one account suddenly gets a lot聽聽
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more money in it and was that the intent to be聽
that much money. Now maybe it was, it sounds like聽聽
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she said she was removed from her mother's聽
annuities something they did during life,聽聽
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maybe changed the beneficiaries and then the聽
mother felt bad about it and wanted her on聽聽
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the bank account. So the key here is when I'm聽
meeting with clients, it's the mother's money聽聽
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and she has a right to decide what to do with it聽
and it doesn't mean she has to leave it equally聽聽
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to all the children. Now what I'm thinking聽
for the daughter though because look at the聽聽
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situation she's in now, facing these, this sort聽
of guilt and feelings about this bank account.聽聽
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I think I would have preferred to put in the聽
trust the bank account and all the money and then聽聽
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in the trust document said, "Upon my death,聽
I leave the sum of X amount of dollars or聽聽
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X percentage of the estate, let's say, 30% or 20%,聽
whatever it is to my daughter Jane Smith, let's聽聽
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say her name, as a gift for taking care of me聽
these past eight years in her home blah blah blah聽聽
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and lay it out like that. So that's why daughter聽
one is getting this extra gift off the top,聽聽
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okay? So we could leave her a $100,000/$200,000,聽
20%/30% then the trust could continue on聽聽
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to say I, after that I divide the rest equally聽
amongst my three daughters and name them equally.
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Now in my opinion the other聽
daughters may raise a question聽聽
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but the trust would still keep it private,聽
out of probate, only the other two daughters聽聽
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would know about it but the language would be in聽
the mother's writing, right there in the trust聽聽
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instead of this you know oral conversation the聽
mother had with the one daughter about wanting聽聽
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her to have the bank account because I believe聽
that conversation probably happened but it's聽聽
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hard on this daughter who's left behind, she feels聽
like she may have to explain this to her sisters.
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So I think I would prefer to have done this聽
through the trust. Now I'm not blaming the聽聽
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other attorney because I don't even know if he聽
knew about it and it sounds like they did it聽聽
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after they left his office but if you're gonna聽
take the time and expense to put together a trust,聽聽
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I would suggest doing your special gifting聽
through the trust because then it's laid out聽聽
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in your language, it's signed by the mother聽
on the date she signed her trust and I think,聽聽
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it would lead to less questions amongst the聽
daughters. Now they could still question it,聽聽
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I mean anyone can question anything聽
but inside the legal document,聽聽
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it would lay out why she's making this gift to聽
the daughter for caring for her, for all these聽聽
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years and in my opinion, it seems reasonable聽
that the other daughters would understand that聽聽
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and it would leave the youngest daughter, the聽
one who's feeling a little bit wondering about聽聽
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this bank account, maybe it would relive her聽
anxiety, you see after death and put less on聽聽
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her to try to explain to the sisters and that's聽
the goal of estate planning is to leave a legacy,聽聽
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gain your own peace of mind during聽
life and leave a legacy to those who聽聽
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leave behind. So it's not any more聽
difficult than necessary for them.
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So I thought once again, this would be a聽
good illustrative question for our series聽聽
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on real attorney reacts, analyzing聽
these questions under Wisconsin law.聽聽
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As you can see, these bank accounts come up often,聽
so if you're looking at your own estate planning,聽聽
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I would think carefully about聽
how you want to plan for them聽聽
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and I would suggest maybe following聽
some of the tips I gave in this video.
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So thanks for watching. If this聽
video has been helpful to you,聽聽
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please consider giving it a 'Like', so others can聽
find and benefit from this information as well.
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Thanks for tuning in and we'll see you next time.
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