Are Baseball Cards A Good Investment? - YouTube

Channel: CNBC

[4]
Sports cards are back.
[6]
People are buying and selling cards with
[8]
enthusiasm not seen since the heyday of
[10]
collecting in the 1980s.
[13]
I think what you're seeing right now across the
[14]
industry is one of the most healthy and vibrant
[18]
times that we've seen for our industry.
[20]
It's tough to pass on the money to be made Right
[23]
now. 20 20 has seen record breaking numbers for
[26]
cards sold at public auctions.
[28]
Over 10 have sold for five hundred thousand
[30]
dollars or more. We sold a mike trout card
[33]
limited to one the super factor for three point
[36]
nine million. These are the two most expensive
[38]
basketball cards in the world that have publicly
[41]
traded. The resurgence has been building over the
[43]
last several years, largely driven by those in
[46]
their 30s and older who collected as kids and are
[49]
now adults with income to spare.
[51]
We all had this crappy experience of the card
[53]
companies flooding the market and then our cards
[55]
being worthless. But you fast forward 30 years.
[57]
You kind of have a remembrance and nostalgia for
[60]
how fun that was. With the onset of the pandemic,
[62]
card collecting exploded and now Wall Street and
[66]
Silicon Valley are taking notice.
[67]
What we have never had in the business are wealth
[70]
managers, money managers, hedge fund guys,
[73]
alternative investment funds.
[75]
And so what we've been doing is just buying the
[76]
best of the best. We created a 20 million dollar
[79]
fund. Card Collecting is different from what it
[81]
was 40 years ago.
[82]
But the crash of the 90s is still haunting.
[84]
Card makers and collectors are determined to
[86]
avoid repeating their mistakes and cash in on
[89]
this popular alternative asset.
[91]
I think cards are definitely having a moment.
[93]
But if you take a long term view of this, the
[96]
cards are here to stay from a from as an asset
[99]
class.
[109]
If you were a kid growing up in the 80s and 90s,
[112]
more than likely you collected baseball cards and
[114]
your father told you they'll one day be worth a
[116]
lot of money. That's because your father saw his
[119]
card collection from when he was a kid become
[121]
valuable in the 1970s when a generation of boys
[124]
came of age and rediscovered their card
[126]
collections. For example, in the late 1960s, a
[130]
1952 Topps Mickey Mantle card, considered one of
[134]
the greatest vintage cards of all time, was worth
[137]
about a dollar. A decade later, it was worth
[140]
about a thousand dollars.
[141]
In 2006, a near perfect version of this card sold
[145]
for near two hundred eighty three thousand
[147]
dollars. And in twenty eighteen, a similar card
[150]
sold for just shy of two point nine million
[153]
dollars at auction.
[155]
A lot of people in my age in their mid 40s, you
[158]
know, we grew up in the 1980s and the baseball
[161]
card boom and going to going to shows.
[163]
So there are a lot of a lot of adults out there
[166]
now in my age range that grew up collecting
[170]
baseball cards and enjoying it and having fun
[172]
with it. It's difficult to put an exact value on
[174]
the card industry at its height.
[176]
But David Liner of the Topps Company says around
[179]
its peak in nineteen ninety one, sales were
[181]
between one and two billion dollars in a given
[184]
year. What's hard is if you look back at the late
[186]
80s and the early 90s, it was really a boom about
[189]
baseball cards.
[190]
It was less so about the NBA, NFL and the NHL,
[193]
which today are much bigger properties.
[196]
And then the industry crashed all the cards ni帽os
[199]
kids collected worthless.
[201]
That bubble is driven by oversupply.
[204]
Well, restricted supply initially.
[206]
And then it burst when the company said, you know
[209]
what, we're going to make two million of these
[211]
Ken Griffey rookie cards but tell people that it
[213]
was much fewer. Most of my friends were similar
[216]
ages in the 30s, 40s, like our collections are
[218]
frankly worthless from that period of time.
[220]
And that that's why is the card companies,.
[222]
About 20 years later, those same kids grew up and
[225]
began revisiting their old card hobby.
[227]
In nineteen ninety six, That's when the junk wax
[231]
era, the mass production era ended.
[232]
In nineteen ninety six was the first year where
[234]
they really started serializing our cards and you
[237]
started getting real scarcity.
[239]
The reason that's really important is that people
[241]
who grew up in nineteen ninety six, they were
[243]
about eight to 10 years old collecting now
[246]
they've reached disposable income.
[248]
Right. So all the cards that I wanted when I was
[250]
a kid that I couldn't afford, now that I'm
[252]
working and I have some disposable income, people
[254]
like me are like I want to go and finally buy
[257]
that. The industry had seen some major changes.
[259]
In the late 1990s, card grading became popular
[262]
for a fee. Companies like PSA, Beckett and SGC
[266]
rate cards on a scale of one to 10, taking into
[269]
account the quality and rarity of the card.
[272]
The higher the grade, the higher the value.
[274]
It's a commodity. People know the general rating
[277]
when the age is going to go for.
[279]
It allows a lot of people to buy and sell trading
[283]
cards sight unseen that change the industry more
[286]
than anything else. When I was a kid, rating
[288]
wasn't a thing like you'd walk into a card shop
[291]
or a card show and By raw cards, which just means
[294]
cards that were pulled out of a pack and they're
[295]
in some little spinny sleeve or whatever.
[297]
You know, I got cards graded in the late 90s when
[299]
I was a teenager, when these companies were just
[302]
getting going the concept of having a official
[305]
grade like its mentor or instrument or whatever,
[308]
and then it's authentic, I think is very
[309]
critical. The card makers went through
[312]
consolidation and sports leagues, signed
[314]
exclusive deals with one card company.
[316]
Today, Topps produces cards for Major League
[319]
Baseball. Panini has the rights to the NBA and
[321]
NFL and the NHL is signed with upper deck.
[324]
These brands further increased exclusivity by
[327]
offering limited edition cards better known as
[329]
hit cards. Finding a rare card that includes an
[332]
autograph or a piece of a player's jersey could
[334]
instantly be worth five or more figures.
[337]
All of the manufacturers, we are all well aware of
[341]
what happened in the eighties and nineties, and
[343]
not wanting to repeat those mistakes.
[345]
our licensors, Major League Baseball, the NFL,
[348]
NBA, they are all well aware.
[350]
Also, it's not over licensed for the most part.
[354]
We're able to manage within our lane of those
[356]
four licenses to ensure that we're creating great
[359]
products that will resonate for years to come.
[362]
In the early 2010s, Breaking started to gain a
[365]
following online.
[366]
It offsets risk when buying unopened cards and
[368]
has amassed a following on YouTube and Twitch.
[371]
That box sells five hundred dollars and you've got
[373]
ten packs in the box so people can buy slots in
[376]
that box. That said, everybody can buy a pack and
[378]
the person opens up. How could this package for
[380]
this person got Brian Podres, Michael S
[383]
Nationals', Kamron M Royals', Michael C res and
[386]
it's all done online.
[387]
It's all done up front in front of the camera.
[389]
And you don't know what you're going to get. You
[390]
know, you're going to get a pack in that box.
[391]
So somebody may get something worth twenty five
[393]
dollars. Somebody may literally get something
[395]
worth fifty thousand dollars.
[397]
Logo man patch auto one of one.
[401]
Look at that change.
[403]
Oh, dude, somebody has to get rich on the stream,
[408]
breaking to the trading card community is our
[410]
version of eSports, and it's great and everybody
[414]
knows everybody I know. After an injury landed
[416]
Rich Leighton at home for an extended period of
[418]
time, he rediscovered his card hobby and stumbled
[421]
upon breaking.
[423]
I haven't collected since I was a kid and cards
[426]
and changed a bit, I saw a relic of I got a relic
[429]
card with a piece of game used jersey inside of
[431]
it. I received an autographed card in the box and
[434]
I was blown away.
[436]
Those things did not exist in the mid to late 80s
[440]
when I was collecting when I was younger.
[442]
One thing led to another.
[444]
This took me onto YouTube.
[445]
I even came across a couple of people that called
[448]
themselves Breaker's and I saw their videos and I
[452]
thought to myself, Man, I feel like this is
[454]
something that I could do well.
[456]
Rich founded Leighton Sports Cards in 2012 and has
[459]
been breaking cards ever since.
[461]
The company has eleven full time employees,
[463]
boasts one of the top YouTube channels for
[465]
breaking with over thirty thousand subscribers
[468]
and nearly doubled their sales each year since
[470]
the start. The jump from twenty nineteen to
[474]
twenty twenty. This current year we're expecting
[477]
to double our sales again.
[480]
This year, We have not stopped demand for our
[483]
breaks and the demand for products and the demand
[486]
for just sports cards in general on all
[490]
markets and all facets of the industry as has
[494]
never been better, at least since since we
[496]
started in 2012.
[498]
It's never been better.
[500]
This past decade, people in the sports card world
[502]
noticed a significant increase in value and
[505]
demand. I noticed the industry really taking off
[507]
in twenty sixteen.
[508]
We really noticed a giant jump in doing the amount
[513]
of breaks and doing the amount of product really
[516]
in the beginning of twenty seventeen.
[518]
The trading card business has been growing
[520]
significantly the past five or six years.
[523]
What we've seen in the last six months during the
[525]
pandemic has been an acceleration of that growth.
[528]
People are stuck at home and looking for things to
[530]
do. So they're getting back into maybe hobbies or
[533]
interest of theirs and collections.
[535]
There's no sports on TV at the time and they're
[538]
not spending time or money on going out to dinner
[541]
or going on vacations at that time.
[543]
So it looks like more people are putting their
[545]
money into into collectibles and in their
[547]
hobbies. I mean, heading into before covid, if
[551]
you will, in January and February of this year,
[553]
we were hitting record numbers for our business
[556]
already. When covid started and people had to
[559]
stay home, we took off even more from there.
[562]
In a pandemic, you'd think that business would be
[564]
slow. And right now it's the best it's ever been.
[569]
Obviously, we would rather have a healthy
[570]
country, but you know we're here to take
[572]
advantage of it as much as we possibly can.
[575]
But overall, I would say the market, whether it's
[578]
a card and autograph game used jersey, bat things
[583]
have gone up a lot.
[584]
Then ESPN moved the release date of the hotly
[586]
anticipated Michael Jordan documentary series,
[589]
The Last Dance from June to April.
[591]
The Last Dance was a very well timed documentary
[595]
released when we were all starved for sports.
[598]
There was nothing, you know, 20 plus years
[600]
removed from Jordan's kind of his last three peat
[604]
in ninety seven, putting a lot of his highlights
[606]
out there and kind of reinvigorating the debate
[608]
to see the greatest of all time missing LeBron
[610]
James. But I think the last dance brought a lot
[612]
of nostalgia back and really showed a new
[615]
generation how significant Jordan was to to the
[618]
game of basketball. The last dance became the
[620]
highest rated documentary in ESPN history.
[623]
It brought back nostalgia.
[625]
It brought back memories of the greatness of
[626]
Michael Jordan and his cards and memorabilia
[629]
started going up.
[630]
And in our industry, it is definitely a case
[633]
where rising tides lifts all boats.
[635]
If a Michael Jordan rookie goes from forty
[638]
thousand one hundred thousand, then Charles
[640]
Barkley rookies are going to go up.
[641]
Kobe Bryant rookies are going to go up.
[643]
LeBron James rookies are going to go up, Steph
[645]
Curry rookies are going to go up and so on and so
[647]
forth. Sales of Michael Jordan cards on eBay
[649]
increased over three hundred seventy percent
[652]
after the film's release.
[653]
And eBay has seen an average of three basketball
[655]
cards sold every minute on the platform.
[658]
Out of all the stuff that's seen, significant
[660]
increases in twenty twenty and that we handle
[663]
Michael Jordan's percentage wise has seen them
[665]
the most. In the months after the release of The
[668]
Last Dance, several basketball cards sold for six
[671]
figures or more at auction, two of them a LeBron
[674]
James rookie card and a Giannis Antetokounmpo
[677]
rookie card for one point eight million dollars
[679]
each the buyer leader Avodart and Alt fund one.
[684]
For the fund, Try to get really good lighting
[688]
this, this is the multimillion dollar LeBron card
[691]
that we purchased. This is the best LeBron card.
[694]
And then and this is obviously our favorite card.
[699]
This is the Giannis's card, these are the two
[702]
most expensive basketball cards in the world that
[705]
have publicly traded. How much are we holding in
[708]
your hands right now? I would say well over five
[711]
million dollars, at least in today's market
[713]
value. I mean, people have been speculating that
[715]
this one is already in its self worth over five
[718]
million dollars. Leore Avidar has been a
[720]
collector most of his life, owning some of the
[722]
most valuable Kobe Bryant cards.
[724]
I am a Kobe collector, like through and through.
[726]
So my collection is like ninety nine percent Kobe
[729]
Bryant, I would say.
[731]
I think I have the most high end Kobe Bryant
[733]
collection in the world. For years, he's believed
[736]
sports cards are part of the modern age of
[738]
alternative assets or culture assets.
[741]
A culture asset, There's three things that go into
[743]
it. So the first is there's nostalgia associated
[746]
with it, right? Like, I mean, Kobe Bryant, I feel
[748]
attached to him. I really want something that I
[750]
can be part of his brand.
[752]
The second one, these things are really made very
[754]
well. It's a great picture.
[755]
It's a great pose. It is a piece of art.
[757]
And then the last part is like it is an
[759]
appreciating asset given the scarcity of these
[762]
assets. And so together you get this magical
[764]
being called what again, as I said, a culture
[767]
asset with greater awareness of inventory,
[769]
limited edition cards and a formal grading
[772]
system. This new era of card collecting proved
[774]
select cards could be a serious way to diversify
[777]
one's investments.
[779]
Back when cards were five dollars.
[780]
It was hard to kind of you physically had to have
[782]
many of them to have any sort of value, valuable
[784]
collection. Nowadays you can have 10-20 cards and
[787]
have significant portion of your net worth in
[790]
sports cards as an alternative asset.
[792]
And so I think there's also people treating it as
[793]
like a long term investment.
[795]
One of the things that we hear constantly is that
[799]
people appreciate people like the idea that these
[802]
collectibles are tangible.
[804]
They can get an item, they can hold it, they can
[808]
enjoy it. They have some safe store of value and
[812]
they get a little bit more than they would out of
[815]
company stuff. Babe Ruth isn't going to do
[818]
anything tomorrow that's going to hurt the value
[821]
of his collectibles.
[822]
On the financial side of things.
[823]
I think we've had such a bull run over the last
[825]
ten years that people are looking to diversify
[827]
their assets and also just find ways to make more
[830]
yield or just return.
[832]
The stock market over the long run makes around
[834]
seven percent. People want to take a lot more
[837]
risk, especially early on when they're young.
[839]
And so you're finding people thinking about, OK,
[842]
I guess I can make seven percent in the stock
[843]
market, but where can I make one hundred percent?
[845]
Where can I make, you know this is why
[847]
cryptocurrency became really big.
[849]
And so you're seeing people start speculating.
[851]
So you're seeing a lot of people move into
[853]
alternative assets because, again, they want to
[854]
make those higher returns.
[856]
For Leore, He saw this trend and realized there
[858]
was no way for people to manage and track the
[861]
value of their alternative investments.
[863]
So he founded ALT.
[864]
I've been investing in alternative assets now
[866]
heavily since twenty sixteen, and I've basically
[869]
run into all these problems at scale.
[871]
And so ALT is really a solution to all those
[874]
problems. So the first problem that people run
[876]
into is what is my asset worth?
[879]
And so you can put in a card and they'll tell you
[880]
exactly how much it's worth.
[882]
So you can see everything all in one place.
[884]
It feels very much like fidelity.
[885]
The second problem is around insurance.
[887]
These are hard assets, right?
[889]
So we've created a dynamic insurance product
[891]
where you can upload your collection.
[893]
Mostly you're just managing it, but you click
[895]
insure and you're always insured up to the alt
[897]
value, which is kind of like our proprietary
[899]
estimate or Kelley Blue Book.
[901]
And then the last piece is around liquidity.
[904]
And so for the first time, you can actually take
[905]
a loan against your entire collection.
[907]
Not only did you create the platform, but he also
[910]
created alt fund one, a twenty million dollar
[913]
investment fund for sports cards.
[915]
The fund has already purchased over one hundred
[917]
cards and is up thirty five percent since
[920]
September. You are creating a diversified
[922]
portfolio of I would say seventy five percent
[924]
basketball. Twenty five percent football.
[927]
There are some speculative bets in there as well
[930]
as people who have already hit their career
[931]
accolades like Michael Jordan, LeBron James, Kobe
[934]
Bryant. Majority of the portfolio is buy and
[938]
hold, but twenty five percent is actually for
[940]
arbitrage. So given that we are the best at
[943]
valuing the assets, I would say we are in prime
[945]
position to find something that we can quickly
[948]
buy and sell or trade and make some good money
[951]
off of. Alt fund one is only available to
[954]
accredited investors, but other companies like
[956]
Collectible and Rally allow individuals to
[959]
purchase shares of cards and collectibles.
[961]
Leore hopes to securitize the fund so people can
[963]
trade it like a fund of the New York Stock
[965]
Exchange and one day display the cards to the
[968]
public. So here is one more card that we have not
[971]
disclosed publicly that we just purchased, which
[973]
is the 2011 Bowmen from Mike Trout Super Tracker.
[978]
So there is one of this in the world and his
[979]
rookie card as well.
[981]
And if you're investing in the fund, you get to
[983]
own own this card with us.
[986]
The sports card industry is hot, and it seems
[988]
everyone is profiting to some degree, our sales
[991]
in twenty nineteen were twenty seven million and
[995]
our sales for twenty twenty will top one hundred
[998]
million. Our auction sales for sports in twenty
[1001]
nineteen were just over 70 million.
[1003]
We're poised to do over eighty five million and
[1005]
build twenty twenty ten auctions alone and
[1008]
support an increase of at least 30 to 50 percent.
[1013]
When you look at a high end car that was worth a
[1015]
thousand, now it's twenty thousand and that's a
[1017]
lot more. Collectors and industry experts believe
[1020]
this era is different from the 1980s and 1990s.
[1023]
It's a pure market.
[1025]
It's just it's pure supply and demand.
[1029]
What I can tell you at Tops is the demand today is
[1032]
so far ahead of the supply, we're a made to order
[1035]
business. So we start producing our products
[1038]
months in advance. And when the demand is super,
[1040]
super high, we never go back on press and make
[1043]
more product. And even those sports are back.
[1046]
Card collecting is not stopped.
[1047]
There's even a strong chance the most valuable
[1049]
card record will be broken in the near future.
[1052]
I can tell you this the Luka Don膷i膰, Logoman just
[1054]
sold privately for thirty three point two dollars
[1056]
million and not a lot of people know about.
[1058]
So they're accelerating pretty quickly.
[1061]
I will say we will see our first ten million
[1063]
dollar card in the next two years.
[1065]
There's no market that's just going to only only
[1068]
go up. And so are there going to be corrections
[1070]
in this market? I suspect there will like any
[1072]
other, but I don't think I don't think that the
[1075]
corrections are going to be as significant as
[1077]
they will be in more traditional markets.
[1079]
Whether you are an investor, collector or breaker.
[1081]
It's a good time to be in the business of small
[1083]
pieces of cardboard.
[1085]
It's always hard to say where does this industry
[1087]
go? The pandemic has definitely helped have a
[1090]
step change in the growth.
[1092]
And I think as long as the manufacturers do a
[1095]
good job of creating products with value that are
[1098]
high quality, that resonate with consumers, I
[1101]
think we'll do a much better job of sustaining
[1103]
this growth for many years to come.
[1105]
There aren't as many shows as there used to be in
[1107]
the eighties or as many brick and mortar stores.
[1109]
But the shows that are left and the brick and
[1111]
mortar stores that are left are using the digital
[1114]
platforms to involve the same amount of people,
[1118]
if not more people that were involved in this
[1120]
hobby in previous generations.
[1122]
So all those things are coming together to really
[1125]
make it a vibrant and good market.
[1127]
But I think it really traits back to this just
[1130]
cycle of collecting. Things become vintage every
[1132]
year. Thirty, twenty five, thirty years ago,
[1134]
whatever was produced then is now vintage and it
[1138]
cards isn't the aren't immune to that.
[1140]
The cards that you're opening today with your son
[1141]
or daughter that I'm opening, I can't imagine
[1143]
they'll be worth anything in twenty years, but
[1145]
they probably will be. So keep them.