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NYT Reveals President Donald Trump's Elaborate Tax Con | The Beat With Ari Melber | MSNBC - YouTube
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Donald Trump's tax records reveal fraud
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and schemes to duck taxes on a massive
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long-term scale that is the headline
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from a massive exhaustive detailed
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investigative report that the New York
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Times just drop on the political world
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tonight we're talking here about the
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core of Donald Trump's wealth and
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political appeal because he's always
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argued above all else before everything
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else he is he says a successful
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businessman but these journalists got a
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hold of over a hundred thousand pages of
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documents they found dubious tax schemes
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and quote outright fraud and the White
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House is already pushing back on this
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big story at this hour more on that in a
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few moments but this is significant
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apart from everything else that is
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controversial about Trump apart from his
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lies or his distraction tweets or his
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constant insults of all sorts of people
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this is a story the potentially
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undercuts the thing that Trump
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supporters say they've always liked
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about him the idea the belief and maybe
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the massive con that he is a self-made
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billionaire let's go over the details
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before we get to some incredible experts
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on this reporters examine bank
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statements audits and over 200 tax
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returns
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not just from Trump but also from his
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father from his companies which are
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Byzantine and from other Trump entities
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and what they show in this report which
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I think you're gonna be hearing about
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for a while as the Trump was helping his
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own family his parents dodge taxes
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through quote a sham corporation that
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was explicitly designed to hide millions
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of dollars sometimes in gifts and then
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take improper tax deductions worth
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millions more and then put together a
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scheme to undervalue again going back to
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mom and dad's money his parents real
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estate buy hundreds of millions of
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dollars cumulatively in these returns
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which would reduce the tax bill that
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they'd pay then when it passed through
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the family inheritance the New York
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Times which has taken a big swing here
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finds that all told Trump effectively
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got the bonus equivalent of at least
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four hundred and thirteen million
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dollars in today's money through all
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this and that undercuts the key claim
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that Donald Trump says he may
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his own fortune it's not been easy for
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me it has not been easy for me and you
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know I started off in Brooklyn my father
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gave me a small loan of a million
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dollars I came into Manhattan and I had
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to pay him back and I had to pay him
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back with interest had to pay him back
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for 1 mil well in a new statement Donald
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Trump's lawyers calling this story a
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hundred percent false and highly
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defamatory we begin with John Harwood EC
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NBC's editor at large and bill kristol
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found it at a large of the Weekly
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Standard I want to begin with the big
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outlines of what this is and then go
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into what it does so John Harwood what
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else can you tell us to help us
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understand what the scheme was well
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essentially re what the story lays out
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is the transfer of vast amounts of money
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from Fred Trump his father to Donald
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Trump other kids as well but Donald
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Trump was especially taken care of it
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includes getting thousands of dollars
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beginning when he was a kid and a
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million dollars by the tiny a year by
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the time he had graduated from college
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and the most significant things later in
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life have to do with the ways in which
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the Trump family evaded estate taxes by
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messing with the valuations of
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properties that Donald Fred Trump passed
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on to his kids always two years later
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let me hang it there when you say
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messing with the valuations is that what
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normal people would call lying about
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your money well The Times says that in
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many cases this involved outright fraud
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I think they don't make that statement
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likely you had multiple reporters
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investigating but it had the effect of
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shrinking the estate tax bill for Fred
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Trump's estate from more than 500
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million dollars to about 50 million
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dollars the second thing that happened
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was that there were ways in which he was
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shoveling money to Donald Trump putting
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big bets at a Trump casino without
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placing any bets as a way of getting
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last-minute cash to Donald Trump that he
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created a shell company to inflate
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invoices for the Trump
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real-estate empire and made his children
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the beneficiaries of the profits of that
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shale company so that it was a way of
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getting money to them without incurring
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income tax liability it is a wide range
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of potential fraud there and I want to
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mentioned two things about it one we
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believe that there are statute of
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limitations on potential criminal
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charges but there are civil liability if
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New York state tax authorities decide to
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prosecute an a or to pursue them at a
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much earlier period remember New York
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state authorities wanted to treat Donald
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Trump very well it was a mutually
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beneficial arrangement they don't feel
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that way right now so that's potentially
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significant I appreciate raising we've
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hit that on the show and we've hit the
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fact that Bill and I've talked about it
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a lot of Democratic office holders in
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New York were cozied up to trump when he
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was just another businessmen and the
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question that I think normal people have
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when you hear this you say well wait a
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minute was everyone to sleep with the
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wheel if all this stuff is documented
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year after year and it's stayed in
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federal and the answer is yeah a lot of
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people went along with that corruption
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which i think is bad and bad for both
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parties you stay John you stay but I am
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gonna moderate my way to the other
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guests and come back to you bill I want
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to read to you more from the piece for
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your analysis again on the politics of
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someone who says hey I did this all
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myself the president's parents Fred and
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Mary Trump The Times reports transferred
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over a billion dollars of wealth to
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their children which could have produced
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a tax bill of at least 550 million under
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the 55% rate but the Trump's actually
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paid about 5% tax records show before
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you even get to ducking federal taxes
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which some people and certainly some
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Republicans say well hey I don't like
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taxes anyway how about the notion that
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this guy ran for office and ran around
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the primaries saying these are all phony
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politicians I'm self-made where I got
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one mil a mildewed a bill seems like a
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big difference I mean I spent the whole
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primaries he isn't thinking Trump
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University try there's so many frauds
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that are used to term legally but let's
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just say in a common-sense way that he
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was involved in interceptions and
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unsavory business practices that one
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thought that would have damaged him in
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the primaries and
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did a tiny bit but if she should voters
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didn't seem to care about and I guess
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the question is you know they might look
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at this and this sort of gets your point
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about so many businessman being treated
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this way by New York state authorities
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well what does it Balzac says I get and
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they are at the origin of every great
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fortune is a crime I mean you sort of
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wonder if you turned out with a rock on
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something you know how many of that
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would be like this seems a little
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exceptional I would say not to sound
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like some socialist or something here
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but I you do this it is a sort of a
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certain side of American capitalism the
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one isn't what isn't proud of for me the
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big story here though is what he you
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know people might have accumulated their
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fortunes and unsavory ways what about
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right today what about what he's doing
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is President has he severed his ties
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with the Trump Organization no doesn't
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quite seem so has he released his
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current tax returns okay let's not go
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back twenty years and question his late
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father and all that what about actual
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reality right now there I think there
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remains great vulnerability but I am I
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want to be clear a and you're a guest
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and you'll take whatever position you
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take in my line of questioning I am
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questioning his late father I am
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questioning the way that this individual
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took so much money from his own parents
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and according to The Times report has
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been lying about it John Harwood because
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it's part of either his natural tip
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because he was like this long before he
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was a candidate and because he
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recognized that this was his key point
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of appeal to folks who said well I may
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not like this now the other thing but I
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love that he's a self-made guy who can
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do for America what he did for Trump org
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well you know then that would be
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according to this calculus John that
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would be I don't know getting Great
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Britain to give us a bunch of money if
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he's gonna do for America what he did
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for himself well what I would say Ari is
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that the notion of Donald Trump as a
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self-made billionaire was foundational
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to his rise in politics but I do think
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that once he became a presidential
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candidate bill mentions the Trump
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University it has been widely known that
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there was some shady business practices
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around Donald Trump even during the
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campaign and since then a lot of cash
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transactions for real estate people a
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majority American people have considered
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Trump dishonest throughout his
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presidency I I think more recently his
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political appeal is grounded in his
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choice of enemies
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the people he goes after going after
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immigrants going after african-american
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athletes protesting racial injustice so
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it is I'm not saying that this isn't
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going to have some impact but I'm not
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sure how great of an impact it will have
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I will mention one other vulnerability
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one person who appears in this story at
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some of the critical events is Alan
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weiselberger who is the longtime
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business manager of the Trump
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Organization he is cooperating with the
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Southern District of New York and has in
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the investigation of Michael Cohen if
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there is going to be any current
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investigation that reaches back into the
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origins of the Trump fortune now and why
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Solberg may know a lot about it and may
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be in a position to hurt Donald Trump by
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sharing information key source bill
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kristol
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before I turn to Tony Schwartz co-author
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of the deal who's here to give us more
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context you mentioned Trump or the Trump
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University which was a business that
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made its money giving business advice
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and went out of business and I wonder
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whether there's an analogy there to some
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Republican Trump voters because the
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people who went to Trump University were
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huge Trump believers they even put money
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down and some of them came back around
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in that lawsuit to say and realize they
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were caught is there any corollary here
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bill that's what was so shocking about
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this was a con executed against
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precisely the kind of voters Trump was
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appealing to not so well-educated trying
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to make their way up
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you know the glamorous guy he's gonna
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help you find the secrets and success
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taking your money and he didn't pay much
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of a price for it and I guess I worried
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that the trumpets and we've been through
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so much now that Trump supporters have
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internalized though they'll beat this
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story they'll think hey you know what he
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calmed them all good for him he's kept
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money away from the federal government
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he took some money away from his rivals
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his father was kind of a cunning guy too
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you know we need someone like that as
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president he can cut good deals with our
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truck trade rivals and he can you know
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stand up to the Democrats I do worry
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look I'm not you know this is fantastic
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reporting and it's really kind of
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shocking to meet at all but I do worry
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that it won't have as much political
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effects people well I appreciate that
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little note of nihilism here before I
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let you go
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always always part of the
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these days john harwood and bill kristol
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in all seriousness thank you both for
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your expertise on a big story now as
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promised I turned to Tony Schwartz he's
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co-author of the art of the deal now CEO
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the energy project and a friend of the
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beat who has waited on some of these big
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stories that we want your expertise as
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someone who has been around Donald Trump
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so closely when you look at a story of
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this magnitude what do you think well I
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think two things one since 2016 I've
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felt and I've said on your show that
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there will come a moment where tax fraud
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and money laundering will be Donald
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Trump's biggest problem even bigger than
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collusion and conspiracy and that has
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come true now the second thing is that
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it goes far beyond even what I thought
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had happened this is worse than what you
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knew - oh my god I knew it was bad but I
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didn't believe this is a man who took
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hundreds of millions of dollars or
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fraudulently took hundreds of millions
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of dollars and when his father was 85
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and near senile tried to write a codicil
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to his will to take over complete
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control of his empire why because Fred
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Trump was in the business of making
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money and Donald Trump was in the
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business of losing money and he lost
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money of Fred's throughout his career
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it's like the cover has been ripped off
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this man this whatever myth there was as
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you said earlier that he was a self-made
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man or that he was even a legitimate
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businessman it's gone forever right and
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that's a mythology that it's important
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to his public profile but also goes to
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who he is as someone in his father's
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shadow I should say as he put it or as
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you put it one never knows when it comes
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to quoting the book but I'll read from
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it I also realize if I ever wanted to be
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known as more than Fred Trump's son I
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was eventually going to have to go out
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and make my own mark that's from the art
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of the deal how important was that
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interplay that even before there were
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other potential benefits to exaggerating
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his own role in this he always did you
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find felt he needed to avoid crediting
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his father for what the time says
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tonight was basically a billion to him I
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have felt and said
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forever as long as I've known Trump
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which is more than 30 years that this is
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a man who is a black hole and felt in
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every feels in every moment like a fraud
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what comes out tonight is they had good
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reason to feel like he was a fraud he
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was a fraud and he was committing fraud
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fraud fraud fraud uhland he was being
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fraudulent and here it is in living
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color were in black and white since it's
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in the New York Times a brilliant piece
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of reporting I I think Donald Trump
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sitting in the White House tonight is
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probably feeling more enraged by this
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than by virtually anything that ever
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happened to him well you mentioned that
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in the article it says that from the
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times the president declined repeated
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requests over several weeks to address
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anything in this article this is
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exhaustive piece I want to play for you
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Donald Trump talking about how self-made
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he's always been take a look you see I
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built what I built myself and I did it
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by working long hours and working hard
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and working smart more importantly than
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anything else is by using my own brain
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this is a man who invented himself
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that's his claim to fame he literally
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invented it from whole cloth there's
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nothing about him that is real now we
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really see that and it's it's
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extraordinary I don't agree with Bill
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Kristol I think this is going to have a
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very significant long trail no one wants
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to say anymore that Trump has finally
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been caught that the Teflon has finally
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been scratched but I have to say the
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idea of who Donald Trump was that
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existed until today is gone forever I
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think that's significant and I think a
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piece of this detail and depth which
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everyone is still going to continue to
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digest over over the night in the coming
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days really goes to the heart of not
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only where he came from but where is he
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today and is he more in debt than he
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acknowledges and is that part of why the
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taxes aren't there all these things that
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are not again this is not about beating
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up on family members who are diseased
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you know or anything of that nature it
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is about
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the mystery and what the New York Times
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reports is the fraud at the heart of a
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financial empire that is coexisting with
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a presidency that affects everyone's
[936]
national security and livelihood Tony
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Schwartz thank you for giving us
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perspective on that hey I'm already
[940]
Melbourne from MSNBC you can see more of
[942]
our videos right here or better yet
[944]
subscribe to our YouTube channel below
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you could have been anywhere in the
[947]
world that you're here with us and we
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appreciate that
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