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"They Almost Succeeded" - Jonathan Karl On America's Close Call On Jan. 6th - YouTube
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( BAND PLAYING )( CHEERS AND APP
>> Stephen: HEY, EVERYBODY!
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WELCOME BACK TO "THE LATE SHOW."
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I'M STILL ME.
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LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, MY FIRST
GUEST TONIGHT IS THE CHIEF
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WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT
FOR ABC NEWS, AND AUTHOR OF THE
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NEW BOOK, "BETRAYAL."
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PLEASE WELCOME, JONATHAN KARL!
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( CHEERS AND APPLAUSE )
( BAND PLAYING )
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>> Stephen: HEY!
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NICE TO SEE YOU AGAIN.
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THANKS FOR BEING HERE.
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>> YEAH, YEAH.
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>> Stephen: HAVE WE TALKED
ABOUT THIS BEFORE THAT WHEN YOU
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STARTED CNN YOU WERE ONE TO HAVE
THE YOUNG GUNS.
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>> GENERATION X TEAM, YEAH.
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>> Stephen: HOW LONG AGO WAS
THAT THAT YOU WERE YOUNG?
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>> 47 YEARS AGO.
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>> Stephen: BECAUSE YOU'RE HOW
OLD NOW?
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>> 53.
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>> Stephen: AND I'M 57.
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I'M YOUNG ADJACENT.
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>> I USED TO BE THE YOUNG GUY,
TOO.
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>> Stephen: I WAS THE NEW GUY
AT ONE POINT.
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>> YEAH.
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>> Stephen: LET'S MOVE ON.
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( LAUGHTER )
YOUR NEW BOOK, "BETRAYAL," IS
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ABOUT JANUARY 6 AND THE EVENTS
THAT LED UP TO IT.
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BEFORE WE GET INTO THE DETAILS
OF THE EVENTS AND SOME OF THE
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REVELATIONS OF YOUR BOOK, WHAT
DID IT FEEL LIKE FOR YOU AS
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SOMEONE IN WASHINGTON TALKING
ABOUT AMERICAN POLITICS WHEN
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THAT DAY HAPPENED?
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>> I WAS HEARTBROKEN.
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I SPENT MOST OF MY CAREER
COVERING CONGRESS.
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LOOK, NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES
YOU WALK INTO THAT PLACE, I
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MEAN, I STILL FEEL A SENSE OF
AWE.
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WHEN I WAS A LITTLE KID AND I
WOULD VISIT WITH MY FAMILY, I
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WOULD LOOK TO SEE IF THE LIGHT
WAS ON -- ON TOP TO HAVE THE
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DOME, THAT WOULD MEAN CONGRESS
WAS IN SESSION AND I WOULD WANT
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TO GO IN AND SEE IT.
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TO SEE THE PEOPLE BREAKING IN
AND RUMMAGING AROUND ON THE
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SENATE FLOOR WAS ABSOLUTELY
HEARTBREAKING.
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>> Stephen: WHAT DO YOU THINK
WAS BEING VIOLATED BEYOND THE
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PHYSICAL SPACE?
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>> IT WAS A DIRECT ASSAULT ON
OUR DEMOCRACY, IT REALLY WAS.
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IT'S NOT JUST WORDS.
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THEY WERE TRYING TO STOP THE
CROWN JEWEL OF AMERICAN
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DEMOCRACY WHICH IS THE PEACEFUL
TRANSITION OF POWER.
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LAST THE LAST STEP IN CERTIFYING
THE PLEACHES AND THEY WERE
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DIRECTLY TRYING TO STOP IT.
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THEY WEREN'T JUST VANDALIZING
AND GOING THROUGH, THEY WERE
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TRYING TO STOP WHAT MAKES
AMERICAN DEMOCRACY AMERICAN
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DEMOCRACY.
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BY THE WAY, THEY ALMOST
SUCCEEDED.
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THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS IN THIS
BOOK, AS I RESEARCHED IT, I CAME
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TO REALIZE THAT WE WERE FAR
CLOSER TO LOSING IT ALL THAN I
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REALIZED AT THE TIME.
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I WAS FREAKED OUT AS WE ALL WERE
AT THE TIME BUT IT WAS WORSE.
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>> Stephen: WHAT'S THE THING
THAT MOST SHOCKED YOU IN
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REPORTING FOR THIS BOOK?
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WHAT GOT US CLOSE THAN YOU
IMAGINED?
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>> IF A FEW PEOPLE HAD ACTUALLY
DONE WHAT TRUMP DEMANDED OFok
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THEM, IT COULD HAVE FLIPPED THE
OTHER WAY.
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THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO BASICALLY
SAVED OUR DEMOCRACIER BUT
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THEY'RE NOT YOUR TRADITIONA
HEAROS.
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MANY ARE LONG-TIME REPUBLICAN
PARTISANS WHO DID WHAT HE WANTED
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BUT WHEN IT CAME TO THIS MOMENT
THEY STOPPED.
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DID YOU THINK PENCE WOULD BE THE
GUY TO STAND UP TO TRUMP?
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>> Stephen: NO.
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HE WAS THE MAN WHO WOULD TAKE
HIS WATER BOTTLE OFF THE TABLE
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IF TRUMP DID.
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>> HE WAS DISLOYAL WHEN IT
COUNTED THE MOST.
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SOME OTHERS WERE IN SOME WAYS
POLITICAL HACKS WHO STOOD STRONG
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AND DID THE RIGHT THING AT THE
RIGHT MOMENT.
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>> Stephen: AS SOMEONE WHO
REPORTS IN WASHINGTON CAN YOU
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CALL PEOPLE POLITICAL HACKS?
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>> I DIDN'T NEIGHBOR ANYBODY.
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>> Stephen: BUT WE KNOW HOW
YOU FEEL.
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>> I MEAN THAT IN A GOOD WAY.
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>> Stephen: SURE, WE ALWAYS
DO.
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I'VE SEEN THE SHOW.
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IT'S BRILLIANT.
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( LAUGHTER )
THE NEXT QUESTION, AS PAINFUL AS
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THAT DAY WAS, IT IS ALREADY
BEING CAST AS A DAY IN HISTORY
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AND I'M CURIOUS HOW YOU FEEL
ABOUT THOSE PEOPLE WHO KNOW
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BETTER WHO ARE NOW TRYING TO
REFRAME THAT DAY AS NOT A
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VIOLATION OF OUR DEMOCRACY AND
AS MERELY A PROTEST AND AS AN
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ONGOING GAS LIGHTING THEY'RE
TRYING TO TELL US WHAT WE SAW WE
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DID NOT SEE AND PREVENT OUR
ABILITY TO STOP IT FROM
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HAPPENING AGAIN, I BELIEVE.
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THAT'S AN ONGOING THING, THAT'S
NOT AN HISTORICAL FEELING, IT'S
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AN ONGOING EVENT.
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>> IT'S ONGOING, IT'S HAPPENING
NOW, IT'S OUTRAGEOUS.
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IT DROVE ME EVERY DAY AS I WAS
WRITING THE BOOK.
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I WANTED TO GET THE HISTORY DOWN
IN A WAY THAT WOULD BE
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INDISPUTABLE.
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I WOULD TRY TO WRITE IT IN A WAY
THAT EVEN PEOPLE WHO ARE
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SYMPATHETIC TO TRUMP AND
BELIEVED THE THINGS HE WAS
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SAYING WOULD SEE, NO, THAT'S A
LIE.
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I WENT THROUGH AND LOOKED AT THE
STUFF HE WAS SAYING AND WENT
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THROUGH IN DETAIL AND EXPLAINED
WHY IT'S COMPLETE NONSENSE, A
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COMPLETE LIE.
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AND TO SEE PEOPLE TALK ABOUT THE
DAY AND TRUMP HIMSELF -- I MEAN,
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WHEN I INTERVIEWED HIM FOR THE
BOOK TALKING ABOUT IT WAS SOME
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KIND OF GLORIOUS DAY,
JANUARY 6th.
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>> Stephen: YOU REVEAL IN THE
BOOK THAT AS HE WAS LEAVING
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OFFICE, I THINK ON
JANUARY 20th, ABOUT TO GET ON
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AIR FORCE ONE AND LEAVE FOR THE
LAST TIME, HE TOLD RONALD
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McDANIEL, I'M DONE, I'M
STARTING MY OWN PARTY.
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>> YEAH.
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>> Stephen: HOW DID THEY STOP
HIM?
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>> THIS WAS AMAZING.
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THIS WAS ACTUALLY WHEN HE WALKED
UP THE STEPS TO AIR FORCE ONE
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FOR HIS LAST FLIGHT ON THE PLANE
TO GO TO FLORIDA, HE GETS INTO
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HIS OFFICE AT THE FRONT OF THE
PLANE BEFORE THE PLANE TAKES OFF
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AND McDANIEL WAS CALLING HIM.
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SHE WASN'T AT HIS FAREWELL
CEREMONY, JUST TO SAY THANK YOU,
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GOOD LUCK, AND THAT'S WHEN HE
DROPPED THIS BOMB.
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THE WAY THEY STOPPED HIM FROM
LEAVING THE PARTY IS ESSENTIALLY
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MADE A SERIES OF THREATS, OF
WARNINGS, AND SAID IF HE DID IT
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IT WOULD COST HIM TENS OF
MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
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THERE WERE LEGAL BILLS THE RNC
WERE PAYING THAT WOULD NOW BE
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HIS TO PAY AND THEY WOULD TAKE
HIS BIG 40 MILLION NAME EMAIL
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LIST AND THEY WERE GOING TO MAKE
IT WORTHLESS, TAKE CONTROL AND
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GIVE IT OUT FOR FREE SO HE
COULDN'T RENT IT ANYMORE.
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>> Stephen: HE'S A
BUSINESSMAN.
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>> IT WAS GOING TO COST HIM TENS
OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS AND HE
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BACKED DOWN FOUR OR FIVE DAYS
AFTER JANUARY 20th.
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HE TOLD THEM HE WAS LEAVING.
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HE WASN'T SAYING I MIGHT, HE
SAID I'M DONE, I'M GONE, I'M
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STARTING MY OWN PARTY, AND HE
BACKED DOWN.
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>> Stephen: WE HAVE TO TAKE A
QUICK BREAK.
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DON'T GO ANYWHERE.
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WHEN WE COME BACK, I'LL ASK
JONATHAN INTERESTING NEWS ABOUT
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MIKE PENCE THAT I DID NOT KNOW
AND NEITHER DID YOU BUT YOU
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SHOULD.
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STICK AROUND.
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