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Landlords - Are You Confident Serving A Section 8 Notice? - YouTube
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[3]
okay so more important stuff so I asked
[6]
you guys do you know the two notices
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that you use to end a tenancy this is
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one of them section 8 notice what is a
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section 8 notice does anybody here know
[17]
what a section 8 notices ok section 8
[23]
notice is a notice that relies on one of
[27]
17 grounds under the 1988 Housing Act
[31]
that allows us to apply for possession
[33]
of a property under an assured shorthold
[35]
tenancy now the grounds are split into
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two sections
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mandatory grounds and discretionary
[48]
grounds now what does that mean well
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what mandatory means is if you are able
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to prove that the ground you are citing
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applies and all of the boxes around what
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Sally said to earlier about paperwork
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and boxes being ticked all of the boxes
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have been ticked and you have the right
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to use this notice and you're using it
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in the correct format and you've served
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it in the correct day and you've left
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the right amount of days notice for
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service and you can prove that you have
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done all of this then you can ask for
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your tenants to leave so 1 to 8 is a
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mandatory ground if you get in front of
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a judge and your ground applies on that
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day in court the judge has to give you a
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possession order now I have a lovely
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gentleman here called basil who I went
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to court with a few years ago do you
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remember basil and we went on a
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mandatory ground and it was Christmas
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time wasn't it basil there you go and
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the judge in Wolverhampton council felt
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so sorry for this poor tenant that we
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actually had turned up
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basil myself Nicoli we turned up with
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the evidence that this tenant has not
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paid her rent for four months I think
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we're about all of those four months now
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what they do is they write you and they
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say please submit all of your evidence
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with your court papers and they write to
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the tenant and they say please let us
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know if you have a defense and what
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they're supposed
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that's what they're supposed to do if
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there's a defense it's meant to be done
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before we are in front of the judge so
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the judge can look at all of the facts
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and make a decision now what I'm telling
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you here he's on a mandatory ground the
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judge should and must a possession no
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honest turn got the free advice from the
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lovely people that sit at the courts
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helping these people for free and she
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came in and she said I did pay my rent
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on that day they're lying and we we
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tried to say to the judge but Sir she
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should have provided a no I will not
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have you talking in my court I hereby
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give you 14 days to provide me with that
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receipt so we were sat then we were like
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no this is not right but you can't argue
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with the judge we tried impossible we're
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nearly I nearly got done in contempt in
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call I was actually really scared and
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argue with them so what you probably
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thinking is 14 days he's not very long
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but remember what date we told you it
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was Christmas so 14 days wasn't 14 days
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and also at the moment the time that we
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are waiting for a court date in any
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application for possession is an average
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of four to six weeks and it's actually
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teetering on the later which is six
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weeks so not only did he have to wait 14
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days he then had to wait for a new court
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date which was another four to six weeks
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and in this time guess what did the
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tenant produce the receipt to prove that
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she paid the rent of course she didn't
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because she never paid the rent we went
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back to court eventually and we got
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possession so what's the point of this
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story because I'm telling you this is a
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mandatory ground I'm just showing you
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how tough it is at the moment and that
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was by doing everything right 9 to 17
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are discretionary grounds what does that
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mean that means that if you go to court
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on a discretionary ground it's up to the
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judge on that day whether he gives you
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possession so what we say to landlords
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and want our advices on what most
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landlord and tenant lawyers advices are
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don't go to court on a discretionary
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alone be
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because you have no guarantee that you
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will win you have no guarantee that
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you'll get possession and therefore when
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we go on to talk about section 21 notice
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if we are on an ast and we are able to
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do so it's much safer to use a section
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21 notice that the tenant really doesn't
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have as much defense to in a court of
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law
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it doesn't mean though that you can't
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cite mandatory and discretionary grounds
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because the one thing that we use this
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notice for most is rent arrears there's
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a lots of different things that you can
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use it for and I'll show you a brief
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list that in a minute but there's lots
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of different things but the main one
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that is used in this country is rent
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arrears
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so if tenant is in two months rent
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arrears or eight weeks if the rent is
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due weekly you can serve a section-8
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notice using mandatory ground 8 and what
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we then do is we bolt on 10 and 11 which
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are discretionary grounds in relation to
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rent arrears why do we do that why we do
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that is because mandatory ground 8
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states that the tenant has to be 2
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months in arrears when you serve the
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notice first requirement but they also
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must be 2 months in arrears on the day
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you arrive in court so I've told you
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guys before about how to rent guy that
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you give to tenants now legally at the
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start of the tenancy what do you think
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that is it's a Bible of telling them
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everything they need to know about a
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tenant so what will a clever tenant do
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if you've only used mandatory ground 8
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they'll pay 50 quid or a tenner on that
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day and you'll know below that mandatory
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ground you've got nothing else to rely
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on in court you may as well go home
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because he's not going to award because
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you are not meeting the requirements of
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mandatory ground now we took we had a
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really funny case once well it wasn't
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funny actually but better be careful
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have any you ever had tenants that have
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changed their standing order date does
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that ever happen to you yeah on this
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case what happened was we'd had a tenant
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that changed a standing order date and
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the amount of money that they needed to
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hey was something stupid like 169
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founded 97 pence well of course they
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came into the office and what did they
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pay they paid 170 pound didn't they
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because we haven't got three P change so
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what that meant was the tenant was in
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credit by 3 P so when they started to
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not pay their rent and we got to two
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months we were three P short of the
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mandatory ground and we had to wait
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three months before we could apply for
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that so bear that in mind
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never allow tenants to sit in very small
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credit because if they do stop paying
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the rent it really can extend the time
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that you have to wait before you
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conserve notice and that 3 P was the
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work 3 p of my life so now you guys
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don't know but where's the property
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management farm what do we have in our
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office now when a tenant is in arrears
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of let's say 1 p 20 p what have we got
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on our desk we have an arrears pot and
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we ate the 3 P out then we go up to our
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accounts to pump and we say we're gonna
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pay these tenants rent and they look at
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us and say you really want me to bank 3
[470]
P and I'm like yep I do get it off that
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ledger please because we don't want it
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because we've learned from this lesson
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now when you serve a section 8 notice if
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none of you guys even knew what one was
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so I recommend none of you serve one
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first and foremost you either need an
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agent or a solicitor but when you do
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serve a section 8 notice there's lots of
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things that you need to consider there's
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lots of boxes that you need to tick they
[494]
need to be it needs to be served in a
[495]
correct way
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prescribed form you can't just get a a
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four piece of paper and write section a
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I give you two months no it doesn't work
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you have to cite the grounds in full you
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have to give the appropriate notice
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period so as you can see up there 1 to 5
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are prior notice grounds that means
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those grounds if you are going to rely
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on them the tenant must have been warned
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about prior to the start of tenancy so
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of course what do we do with those
[520]
grounds we put them in the agreement
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they're in the agreement so that if we
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ever will need them that they're in
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there and they've been notified when you
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serve a section 8 notice you have to
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allow the tenant to 14 day grace period
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to pay up so that's why it says you have
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to allow 14 days for them to act on that
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notice and pay you want they owe you you
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also have to allow two days for service
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two working days for service don't get
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the service days wrong because it can be
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very costly because your notice will be
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invalid so two days notice working days
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for service so after we've served a
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section-8 in general 16 days later if
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the tenant has made no payment the
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landlord or else as your agent will be
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saying to you we now recommend you act
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and at that point is where we start
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looking at submitting an application to
[570]
court for possession now someone would
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say why don't we give them a little bit
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longer have you just forgot what I told
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you that we've gotta wait six weeks for
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a court hearing do you really want to
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give them a little bit longer if they're
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not paying you on average if a tenant
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stops paying rent and I mean stops
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paying completely you are on average
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looking between four and six months
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before you get possession because of the
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time scales that you have to follow with
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the process so what that means is that
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you are without rent for the whole of
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that time unless you have opted to take
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rent guarantee which I recommend all of
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you do I really strongly do because not
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only will that guarantee that you've
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still got your rental income coming in
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but it covers all of your legal costs
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does anybody know how much the call fees
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at the moment it was a again let's go
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back in time just one year or two years
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it was a hundred and seventy five pound
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it's now three hundred and fifty five
[629]
pan they've nearly doubled that cost
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alone so you're not getting no rent in
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now you've got to pay the court fee and
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then if you don't know what you do and
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you've got to pay a solicitor to attend
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as well I wish a solicitor would cost
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three hundred and fifty five pound but
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you're probably looking somewhere in the
[644]
region between 612 and pound depending
[648]
on attendance at court how good they are
[651]
so guys if you haven't already got rent
[655]
guarantee if you haven't already got
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these things covered look at look at it
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now and look at it at your next let if
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it's not available to you now because
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trust me I am experienced in this
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frequently not not every tenant
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when it does happen it's painful and it
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really is and that's a landlord's most
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vulnerable time because they're angry
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they're frustrated and then guess what
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we've got Barham them ringing them up
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going hi you all right yeah I'm great
[682]
Farhan boilers broke in a this property
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down the road well I'm not fixing that
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shame paid me no rent for three months
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I'm sorry but you've got to you're
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telling me I've got to fork out 1700 pan
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2,000 pan and she's not breaking yep
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because if you don't they will defend in
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court with the non repair and claim you
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do not want the tenants to have any
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defense in court when you get there
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think of a think of arriving in court as
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a privilege you've already waited six
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weeks you don't want there to be the
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case where we were you do not want the
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tenant to have a defense so I'm sorry
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guys sorry landlord you do have to
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maintain your with parent obligations
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under Section 11 of the Landlord and
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Tenant act 1985 even if the tenant is
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not payment and I know that's the point
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where you probably most likely don't
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want to do it but it's actually the most
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important time to do it it can be served
[739]
by hand hand-delivered but please make
[742]
sure you've got evidence of this and if
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you are hand delivering it stir it needs
[747]
to be before four o'clock and it's still
[748]
one working days no one working day for
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service
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now do you send it if you send it by
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post who here thinks we need to send it
[757]
recorded delivery put your hand up yet
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most of you absolutely not because if
[764]
your tenant is not paying the rent and
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they see a lovely letter pop through the
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door that's recorded delivery in the mum
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turns up in he says can you please sign
[772]
for these what are you gonna say no
[773]
thanks you're not gonna sign for it
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you're not going to sign for it because
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you know it's something you don't want
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to receive first-class post okay because
[784]
that is legal postage you I recommend
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you obtain proof of postage so what we
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do is we photocopy our M below we focus
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externally and that's our evidence
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evidence it but first-class post is the
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best way because they cannot deny
[799]
receiving it
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so again recorded delivery
[803]
not the the the right way to do it any
[807]
questions on section 8 I know that's
[808]
quite a hefty thing yes yeah well again
[816]
this is another thing that they're so
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far ahead of every other regulation but
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they don't seem to have caught up that
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we've now got emails and emails are
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fantastic they're quick they're easy
[824]
there's no need for 2-day service
[827]
there's no actual case yet to say that
[832]
notice served via email has been stood
[837]
up in court it is valid however what we
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do is we do send it via email but we
[843]
still back it up with the post because
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if you do fire email and the post fails
[847]
or something fails or something but if
[849]
you turn up at court and say look here's
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my evidence there's the email date state
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stanton time sent to that person you
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know they've received and responded to
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all of their emails I believe they've
[860]
had it I mean he is also my evidence of
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postage the judge will look and your
[864]
thing you are not lying
[866]
you're telling the truth there's no harm
[869]
absolutely not but one of the things I
[870]
would recommend is if you are going to
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be communicating with tenants by email
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get their permission to do so and get an
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email address where they give you
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permission to talk to them through it
[880]
was really funny actually cuz we served
[881]
something once suddenly I can't remember
[883]
what it was but I found it hilarious the
[885]
tenant denied receiving it but they'd
[888]
responded to the email with a question
[890]
that I destiny so I was like mmm how did
[892]
you not receive the attach that was it
[894]
there's an attachment we didn't get that
[895]
one but you answered the question within
[898]
the content of the email so how did you
[900]
not get it any other questions about
[902]
section 8
[908]
yeah this is another big myth a lot of
[911]
landlords don't believe that they're
[912]
covered for loss of rent in their
[914]
insurance
[915]
lots of rental in shop policy I'm not
[918]
gonna say categorically but normally
[920]
means that if your property becomes
[923]
uninhabitable and you have to rehouse
[926]
your tenant or your tenant doesn't need
[928]
to pay rent for a period of time due to
[929]
some dinners happen which is insurable
[931]
they will cover your loss of rent for
[934]
that period it doesn't mean if your
[937]
tenant doesn't pay tono will pay it for
[939]
you because don't forget your insurance
[942]
hasn't assessed the criteria of the
[945]
tenant its assessed the criteria review
[947]
as the landlord and he's based on that
[949]
as such so if I took car out in car
[952]
insurance out there basing it on my no
[953]
claims they're basing it on my length of
[956]
drive in their basement on my age now
[958]
that I'm older the basement everything
[960]
to do with me so if Preet wanted to
[962]
drive my car who hasn't passed the test
[964]
in everything else it wouldn't be fair
[965]
for her to get in the car and say well
[967]
I'm covered in horns because it's do
[969]
very different things so a lot of an
[971]
odds believe they are covered for it in
[972]
their insurance but I would be very
[974]
surprised and I'd say it will be very
[976]
very minimal if you are just so that you
[979]
can see these are the grounds that we
[981]
can choose to pick from in order to use
[983]
for possession so as you can see some of
[985]
them are not all horrible so for example
[987]
ground fiber like that one if the
[990]
property was rented to a minister of a
[992]
church and the minister ended his
[995]
whatever he does ministry and that
[997]
property was in relation to that job
[1000]
you'd use ground five to end that
[1002]
tenancy ground seven if your tenant dies
[1006]
don't think you get possession of your
[1008]
property just because they've died it
[1010]
doesn't happen like that you've still
[1012]
got to go through the process of
[1013]
obtaining possession the easiest way to
[1016]
obtain possession when the tenant has
[1017]
died if you are unfortunate enough to
[1019]
have a nice tenants died that we have is
[1022]
through their next of kin and ending it
[1024]
via negotiation but you have to make
[1027]
sure that the person that you're dealing
[1028]
with is the executor of the will and has
[1031]
the power to do so now just because your
[1034]
tenant dies it also doesn't mean that
[1036]
the rent
[1036]
judai is of course because if the
[1039]
tenancy has to can
[1040]
the rent is still due and the estate
[1043]
would be responsible for that amount but
[1046]
the easiest way when a tenant dies is
[1047]
just do it by negotiation arrange to get
[1049]
the tenant stuff out of there and end
[1051]
the tenancy by way of deed of surrender
[1053]
this can actually be a really big
[1056]
problem we've experienced it having
[1057]
beforehand when tenants have died at the
[1060]
past and you don't have their next of
[1062]
kin and you can't make any contact and
[1064]
it can be a can be a problem and then
[1068]
here we've got the the rent arrears
[1070]
ground--a 11 12 12 is a breach of
[1074]
tenancy but as you can see the majority
[1076]
of them 9 to 17 where some of these are
[1079]
actually quite serious are discretionary
[1081]
grounds
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