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Meet The Federal Prosecutor Who Scares Trump More Than Mueller | The Beat With Ari Melber | MSNBC - YouTube
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this week's indictment of the Russian
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lawyer who met with Paul Manafort and
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Trump's family members is a huge
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development since she was the most
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high-ranking Russian at a meeting that
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Bob Muller is investigating in his
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collusion probe of Miller's office
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didn't just indict her just like his
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office didn't actually indict Michael
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Cohen the office that charged the
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Russian lawyer was the top Federal
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prosecutor's office in Manhattan the
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Southern District of New York this is
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the office with jurisdiction over the
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Trump Organization and activities
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involving Trump and his family which
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includes anything he did before he
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became president so tonight we turn to a
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special report why this office is
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proving so significant and why it's
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making such pivotal moves on matters
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adjacent to the Millar probe the first
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thing you need to know is that this
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story is way bigger than Trump very few
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federal prosecutors offices have
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national reputations can you think of a
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current or past US attorney from Texas
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or California
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I can't off the top of my head but you
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know several prosecutors who led this
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Southern District Preet Bharara who
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indicted hackers and murderers and some
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famous Democratic politicians in New
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York before Trump fired him oh Rudy
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Giuliani who busted bankers and mobsters
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and racked up a record four thousand
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convictions back when Giuliani was
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popular across the political spectrum
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because of that record where James Comey
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who led the office with a fierce
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independence and only left for promotion
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to the bush DOJ handing the reins to
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David Kelly who prosecuted major terror
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cases and financial fraud these
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prosecutors have long stressed that this
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office is special it takes on big
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targets and it's aggressive we are
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aggressive
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we're proprietary of the office I don't
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care who you are nobody's too big or too
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small to break the law we are committed
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to identifying targeting disrupting
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prosecuting and eradicating all of these
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merchants of poison now that's the
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people who run this office now nowadays
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you can't understand all the angles in
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the Malheur probe without understanding
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this office but if you're not interested
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in this topic you might think I mean who
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cares about the history and posture of
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this particularly aggressive office well
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two groups of people for sure lawyers
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and criminals for lawyers well it's
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their field and for criminals they learn
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quickly which prosecutors and
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investigators are most aggressive in
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pursuing them so it stood out when right
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after Trump's election in November 2016
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when he had thousands of open posts to
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fill in the administration he chose to
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personally invite one US attorney to
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Trump Tower there are 93 of them but
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only one was summoned to Trump Tower in
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front of the cameras the US attorney
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from the Southern District of New York
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Preet Bharara president-elect is aware
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of the great work that our office has
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done over the past seven years to meet
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with me to discuss whether or not I'd be
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prepared to stay on
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to do the work as we have done it
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independently
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without fewer favor for the last seven
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years I agreed to stay on he agreed to
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stay on which did not last and the
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meeting itself was already unusual
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there's no record of other presidents
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personally meeting with local
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prosecutors during their transition and
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if Trump wanted political loyalty from
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the prosecutor running the Southern
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District
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he was unlikely to get it from ver ara
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we talked about this when I interviewed
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him he took on Wall Street and powerful
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Democrats in his own party while he was
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in that post we are aggressive were
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appropriately aggressive that's the
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history of the office and I think the
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public is better for people say are you
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concerned about going after powerful
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people politicians or hedge fund
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managers and I find that a little bit
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silly because a lot of what we do the
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button butter of what we do is go after
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really really violent criminals a guy in
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a suit with a lot of money is doesn't
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pose much of a threat to our psyche now
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you look back on all this right now it's
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that office but this week in Deitz a
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Russian from the Trump Tower meeting and
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sends Donald Trump's lawyer to prison
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when you look back at it one can see why
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Trump's self-interest could be impacted
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by this office but who would know that
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back then why was this high on Trump's
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to-do list Ferrara later said Trump was
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trying to inappropriately cultivate him
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and the parara was fired when that
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failed an echo of Trump's treatment of
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another former SD NY prosecutor James
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Comey it appeared to be but he was
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trying to cultivate some kind of
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relationship so he called me in December
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ostensibly just to shoot the breeze and
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ask me how I was doing he called me
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again two days before the inauguration
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again seemingly to check in and it's a
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breeze and then he called me a third
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time when he became after he became
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president so the call came in I got a
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message we deliberated over it thought
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it was inappropriate to return the call
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and twenty two hours later I was asked
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to resign along with you know 45 other
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people now those 45 other people those
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firings could help Trump his defenders
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say he was cleaning house
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like other presidents and this was not
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about the Southern District of New York
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except Trump was fixating on the
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Southern District in another weird move
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he began personally interviewing the
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candidates for that office
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and a radical departure from precedent
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the President of the United States is
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personally interviewing two people for
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US Attorney jobs here in New York it's a
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weird thing for a president to meet with
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potential nominees to be federal
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prosecutors to be US attorneys well a
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president's the power to nominate US
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attorneys they typically do not
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interfere or interview prospective
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candidates but Trump appointed one of
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those candidates that he interviewed
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Jeff Berman to head the office
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now if Trump's goal was to finally get
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control of that aggressive office he
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seemed to fail because it's been very
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busy and that new US attorney Berman did
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something we know Trump hates and
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recused himself from some matters
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including the Cohan investigation and he
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says he will continue this offices
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traditions politics does not enter into
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our decision-making on charging a case
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we bring a case when the case is ready
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to be brought now while molars
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investigators asked a lot of witnesses
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about Michael Cohen it was that office
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the Southern District that searched
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Cohen's home in office and indicted him
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in the media some even suggested this
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meant the very independent southern
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district was now acting without Miller
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this is not the special counsels
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investigation apparently he's punted it
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over to the Southern District of New
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York
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why if Bob Muller found something that
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was a red flag why was it handed off to
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the Southern District of New York what
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motor is doing is saying look this is
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not my area this is outside of what I am
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supposed to be doing but you guys should
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take a look at this
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not exactly though because what we've
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learned is the southern district was
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leading the charge while Muller was
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still involved I think where the press
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has gotten this all wrong is that
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because the search warrant was obtained
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in the Southern District of New York by
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the US Attorney's Office in the Southern
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District of New York that somehow Muller
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has passed this whole matter on but he
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didn't appear to pass it all off the
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southern district pressured Cohen and
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Muller continued to get testimony phone
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that testimony from him and they weren't
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just investigating those payments to
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women the New York prosecutors probed
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Cohen's finances and his campaign
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spending and the Trump Organization and
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how it coordinated with the National
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Inquirer company getting cooperation
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also from chumps
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top money man as part of that Cohen
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inquiry and we don't know if that person
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is still working with that office today
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but then you have this new indictment of
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Russian lawyer Natalya vessel nuts kaya
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which relates to a wider money
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laundering case so right there that is
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five avenues of Investigation that
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tee-off the molar probe and may even
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serve his ultimate conclusions now at
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times this office may be Miller's queen
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in his chess game that spans from
[474]
Washington to Moscow there's even talk
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among some legal experts that while
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Muller has extracted what he needed say
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from michael cohen it was the new york
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prosecutors that squeezed him took the
[485]
big risk of raiding a president's
[487]
lawyer's office and got results Cohen's
[490]
own legal adviser recently told me it
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was the Southern District that prevented
[493]
Cohen from even getting a chance to
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complete his case in advance and he
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questioned their judgment they didn't
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tell the media we did not allow Michael
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Cohen to come in and talk with us I
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called it a lack of proportionality and
[508]
poor judgment proponents of the office
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say they are proportionately aggressive
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meaning Cohen got it rough just like
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past bankers mobsters politicians or
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Martha Stewart who've all objected to
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this offices approach it is known to
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apply the same principles to all just
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ask Rudy Giuliani or at least the old
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Giuliani back when he prosecuted crime
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but you really try very hard to him why
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the same principle to everyone and I
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found being a prosecutor harder than
[539]
being a candidate because the judgments
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you have to make as a candidate are
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pretty clear you go out and argue your
[544]
case and you do the best you can as a
[547]
prosecutor you really have people's
[548]
lives in your hands and you really want
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to try to be fair fair and aggressive an
[553]
approach that has scared many powerful
[555]
people and apparently got Donald Trump's
[558]
attention tonight this office is
[560]
operating at the Nexus of major issues
[563]
in Trump Landy let's take them together
[566]
pursuing a fugitive Russian who attended
[568]
the Trump Tower meeting gathering
[570]
evidence on a now confessed campaign
[572]
spending crime from 2016 overseeing the
[576]
imprisonment of Donald Trump's top
[577]
lawyer gathering testimony from Trump's
[580]
top money man and those are just the
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leads that we know
[583]
about this office isn't really like
[585]
other offices and to understand how it
[587]
works it does help to have someone who's
[588]
run it a big legal name like James Comey
[591]
or a Preet Bharara or a David Kelly who
[595]
replaced James Comey as US Attorney for
[597]
the Southern District of New York from
[598]
2003 to 2005 Kelly now represents Comey
[601]
in private practice he's also former
[603]
chief the organized crime and terrorism
[605]
unit in that department and I should
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mention we used to practice law together
[609]
thank you for being here thanks for
[610]
having me why does this office scare
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people does it look to you like it's
[615]
continuing an aggressive tradition and
[617]
will we hear more from it on any of
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those cases I mentioned look
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historically as everything you've seen
[622]
in the last few minutes tells you it's
[624]
historically it's been an honest office
[627]
a very aggressive office a very you know
[629]
pure prosecutorial I mean I think it's
[632]
what everybody in the prosecutorial
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world kind of aspires to because there's
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not driven by politics or driven by
[638]
facts and that's how you overuse a
[639]
cliche it's driven by you know no fear
[643]
no favor and that's what has always been
[646]
done and and you mentioned you know Jeff
[648]
Berman who was interviewed by Trump it
[651]
was a little bit unusual but he's done a
[653]
very good job where he's at and and the
[655]
proof is in the pudding he's recused
[657]
himself but he did a very good job of
[658]
encircling himself with a really good
[661]
effective prosecutor you think that's a
[663]
hard call to raid the president's
[665]
lawyer's office you know and I don't
[667]
think it's a hard call I think it's a
[670]
call that needs to be made with great
[671]
thoughtfulness which is what they did do
[673]
you think it takes some guts takes guts
[675]
but it but you know again when you're in
[677]
that office that's just that's just what
[679]
you that's how they roll that's that's
[680]
what you do so when you look at that
[682]
office unsealing the indictment of this
[684]
Russian lawyer who was at the Trump
[686]
Tower meeting this week so she's now in
[689]
the u.s. law's eyes a fugitive why do
[692]
they unseal that how does that work can
[694]
they ever catch her sure so you steal an
[696]
indictment because you don't want
[697]
somebody to know about it it could be
[699]
for a whole host of reasons sometimes if
[701]
the person could be cooperating so over
[703]
here they unsealed why she may already
[705]
know about it too it may help shake some
[708]
shake the trees a little bit for more
[710]
witnesses more information that may be
[712]
helpful three it may it may help track
[714]
her down
[715]
for it may be in connection with some
[718]
sort of mutual legal assistance treaty
[720]
to get it from another country if she's
[721]
Russia I doubt that's the case but there
[723]
could be a whole host of reasons for it
[725]
and you know I think probably at the end
[727]
of the day she probably don't know it
[729]
already knows about it so why bother
[730]
sealing it do you think they are
[732]
apparently working closely with Muller
[734]
to make sure they coordinate outcomes I
[737]
don't know that there look I think
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they're certainly not working at odds
[740]
would be my sense how much they are
[743]
actually coordinating I think they might
[745]
think that it's better on some levels to
[747]
not coordinate and other levels to just
[749]
kind of coordinated in the sense that
[751]
let's stay in each other's swim lanes
[752]
you know stay out of each other's swim
[754]
lanes and stay in our own I showed some
[757]
of the criticism that they were very
[759]
hard on mr. Cohen he currently has the
[762]
largest sentence of anyone who's been
[764]
caught up in this what do you think of
[766]
that criticism of the office I don't
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think it's fair crude but I think the
[769]
criticism is is it's you know look they
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treat everybody the same and if you want
[773]
to come in and cooperate you better give
[775]
up everything you ever did if you stole
[776]
a candy bar when you're a kid you better
[778]
tell them about that and if you don't
[779]
want to tell them about it what's not
[780]
going to work out so well for the
[781]
cooperation and that's an ironclad rule
[783]
there and if you bend it for Cohen you
[784]
have to bend it for other people and
[786]
they're not going to do that all the
[787]
other districts do things a little bit
[789]
differently and Bob Muller's office as
[792]
has taken approach that a lot of
[794]
districts do and they they don't take
[796]
that hard-line approach but the southern
[797]
district wouldn't yield and I and I give
[799]
him a lot of credit for that let me ask
[800]
you about a criticism that's been lodged
[802]
against the current district but also
[803]
when you were in charge there which is
[805]
when I was there the criticism when you
[807]
were there sir that they have a New York
[810]
taste for going after high-profile
[812]
defendants response I don't buy that
[814]
what I think what they do is they go
[816]
after cases where cases are to be made
[818]
and where they should be made there is
[819]
something look I don't think he'd go
[821]
after a case you know just for the sake
[823]
of being high-profile often the case is
[825]
if it's if it's high-profile it's good
[827]
because it sends a message to the public
[829]
that you're doing that there's no one
[830]
above the law that the rule of law
[832]
stands strong and so you're saying there
[835]
can be a justified law enforcement
[837]
reason to go hard at someone who is
[839]
famous or powerful in the public eye
[841]
sure but I haven't seen a situation
[842]
where you go after them hard because
[844]
they are
[846]
a powerful person or a high-profile
[848]
person you go after them hard because
[849]
the facts demand it let me read to you
[852]
what Donald Trump reportedly said to his
[854]
acting Attorney General mr. Whitacre
[857]
about the Cohen prosecution in the
[859]
Southern District quote Trump voiced his
[862]
anger at Whitaker after prosecutor
[863]
Manhattan officially implicated the
[865]
president in a hush money scheme what
[868]
does it tell you as a veteran of this
[870]
office that this New York resident
[873]
turned president was so fixated on this
[876]
office from the start what did what do
[878]
you think accounts for that and is that
[880]
kind of pressure inappropriate I think I
[882]
think this this guy is the president is
[885]
trying to keep his enemies close I mean
[886]
it's pretty clear it's it's as mo you
[888]
know you just talk about how he rolls
[889]
that's how he rolls and I think that's
[892]
that's what he was trying to do and if
[893]
you look at his conduct throughout
[895]
there's going back with with Jim Comey
[897]
and others you know if you're not loyal
[900]
he's going to get rid of and that's what
[902]
he's done here and he's tried to
[904]
influence cases where no other president
[906]
has tried to exert that type of
[908]
influence and is completely
[909]
inappropriate and final question while I
[911]
have you because I like to get you when
[913]
you are available in the news the bill
[916]
Barr nomination your view I knew I knew
[919]
mr. Barr back when he was in the Justice
[921]
Department before a tremendous respect
[923]
for him I am a little concerned about
[926]
how he's going to handle having prejudge
[928]
some issues concerning the Moller
[929]
investigation it's going to be
[930]
interesting how that gets flushed out at
[933]
his confirmation hearings he's certainly
[934]
a very capable lawyer for it certainly
[936]
very familiar with and and has proven in
[939]
the past he abides with Department of
[941]
Justice traditions and I hope and I
[944]
would expect that he would continue to
[946]
maintain the integrity of the department
[947]
as he had in the past you say prejudge
[951]
you think the memo that he privately
[952]
submitted was a kind of a audition that
[955]
he would be harsher on those issues I
[956]
don't know if it was an audition it
[958]
certainly was an indication I mean for
[961]
whatever reason he wrote the memo but
[963]
what the memo does is I think it
[965]
suggests that he has a certain opinion
[967]
about the case and frankly I don't know
[969]
how well inform that opinion is David
[972]
Kelly a former US Attorney for the
[974]
Southern District of New York thank you
[975]
very much for coming on the beat I
[976]
appreciate it
[977]
Melvyn from MSNBC you can see more of
[979]
our videos right here or better yet
[981]
subscribe to our YouTube channel below
[982]
you could have been anywhere in the
[984]
world that you're here with us and we
[986]
appreciate that
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